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Will The Washington Nationals Play Meaningful Games In September?

WASHINGTON, DC - SEPTEMBER 25: Drew Storen #22 of the Washington Nationals works the ninth inning against the Atlanta Braves at Nationals Park on September 25, 2011 in Washington, DC. The Washington Nationals won, 3-1. (Photo by Patrick Smith/Getty Images)

Patrick Smith - Getty Images

8 months ago: WASHINGTON, DC - SEPTEMBER 25: Drew Storen #22 of the Washington Nationals works the ninth inning against the Atlanta Braves at Nationals Park on September 25, 2011 in Washington, DC. The Washington Nationals won, 3-1. (Photo by Patrick Smith/Getty Images)

Asked earlier this winter what his goal was for the 2012 Nats, skipper Davey Johnson said he was aiming for nothing short of a pennant, and he told reporters he believed, "the talent is there," for the 2012 Washington Nationals to make a run in the NL East. D.C. GM Mike Rizzo, who started the winter saying the Nats were a pitcher and an outfield bat away from contending, told reporters after introducing left-hander Gio Gonzalez to the nation's capital's last month that even without adding a slugger (though they'd considered signing Prince Fielder), he believed that it was possible the 2012 Nats could improve their offense and compete. "That other bat may be a healthy Adam LaRoche," Rizzo argued, "A healthy full season Ryan Zimmerman and a back-to-Jayson Werth-Jayson Werth. I think that with the maturation of our young core, of [Wilson] Ramos getting better, [Danny] Espinosa getting better, [Ian Desmond] getting better, just by maturing and playing another season and with the continued success of Morse, LaRoche getting better, Zim playing a full season and Jayson coming back to his career norms, I think we have addressed the offensive part."

Star-divide

And don't forget the general manager reminded reporters, "We do have a power left-handed bat by the name of Bryce Harper in the wings, waiting to be fully-developed and help us on the big league level." And that was all before the Nationals signed 28-year-old free agent right-hander Edwin Jackson to a one-year deal. The addition of Jackson on a 1-year/$11M contract the Nats' GM said in a recent MLB Network Radio interview, was, "... a bit of a value for what we got on a 3.5-4.0 WAR player," and as Rizzo told reporters shortly after the deal was announced, the team thought they had an innings shortage with Stephen Strasburg, Jordan Zimmerman and Chien-Ming Wang all in various stages of recovery, so the signing, "... not only fixes the innings-shortage," Rizzo explained, "it also gives us a quality standard that we feel can compete with any team in the division."

"I always see places that need an improvement," Rizzo had said after Gonzalez's introductory press conference, "But, with that said, we like our ballclub and our goal is to be playing meaningful games at the end of the season in September and beyond."

The Nats themselves aren't the only ones with high hopes for what the team can accomplish in 2012. MLB.com's Peter Gammons wrote yesterday, in an article entitled, "Turning point isn't just a talking point in D.C.", that, "The game wants Washington to succeed. The folks who run it want Strasburg and Harper to be good -- really good." Mr. Gammons continues to explain that what MLB really wants is for, "... the NL East to have one of the most competitive, compelling pennant races, with four teams thinking about the postseason on Labor Day,":

"... a race that would highlight young stars like Harper, Mike Stanton and Jason Heyward; veteran stars like Chase Utley, Chipper Jones, Brian McCann, Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes; one certain future Hall of Fame pitcher in Roy Halladay; and a lot of other guys people pay to see, like Cliff Lee, Cole Hamels, Gonzalez, Josh Johnson, Tommy Hanson and Tim Hudson."

Are the Washington Nationals there yet though? Have they added 8-10 wins to their lineup with the pitching additions, more of the same from Morse, a healthy Zimmerman and LaRoche, a rejuvenated Werth, eventually Harper and the improvements they're expecting from Strasburg, Zimmermann, Wilson Ramos, Danny Espinosa and Ian Desmond? Can Washington compete for the Division in the NL East with the roster as it's currently constructed, or at least compete for the Wild Card, or even the second Wild Card if they have one?

NatsInsider.com's Mark Zuckerman calculated earlier this winter that over the last sixteen years, "... the average win total for teams that just missed the playoffs is 88.8." The Braves would have taken the second Wild Card in the NL last season with 90 wins. Can Washington make another ten-win jump this season? With Miami beefing up, the Braves a playoff team last year if not for an epic collapse and the Phillies still considered the team-to-beat in the NL East, will there be any chance of the second Wild Card emerging from the tough NL East?

By "meaningful games" in September, the Nats' GM, obviously, isn't talking about playing the spoiler role against other teams vying for a postseason berth as Washington has in the past. (Hey, Mets! Hey, Braves!) The Nationals think they can win now, though winning in 2013 with what is hopefully an innings-limit-free Strasburg, the center fielder/leadoff man they're looking for and an established Bryce Harper seems a more likely scenario to many preseason prognosticators.

MLB's Mr. Gammons' colleague at MLB.com, Paul Hagen, listed the Nats as the fourth of six NL teams to watch in an article on Monday entitled, "Intriguing teams to keep an eye on in 2012." The Nats have an improved rotation with Gonzalez and Jackson, a bolstered bullpen and with all the offensive parts mentioned above, "This could be the year they break through," Mr. Hagen writes. The only problem?

Sixth of six on Mr. Hagen's list of intriguing teams are the Philadelphia Phillies, who've won, "Five straight division championships." No.4 on the MLB.com writer's list? The Braves, who will learn from the missed opportunity last year according to manager Fredi Gonzalez, who's quoted in the article saying, "'... it's got to help us going forward.'" No.1 on the list of intriguing teams in the National League? The Miami Marlins of course. Last year's 5th place team in the NL East added Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle and Heath Bell to a 72-90 win team which will move into a new home and this year will be guided by former White Sox' skipper Ozzie Guillen. The 2012 Fish, Mr. Hagen writes, will be improved and, "... competitive in one of baseball's toughest divisions."

"The last time Washington won a pennant was in 1933, six months after Franklin D. Roosevelt's historic inaugural speech," MLB.com's Peter Gammons wrote yesterday. Since then the nation's capital lost the original Senators, the second Senators and eventually major league baseball all together from 1971-2005. Washington, D.C.-based teams have just two winning seasons since 1952, Mr. Gammons notes. MLB may want a winner in Washington, but no one wants it more than the nation's capital's baseball fans. The last winning team in D.C., however, was the '69 Senators, and their 86-76 record was only good enough for fourth in the AL that season. It's not going to be easy, but knowing there's even a chance has the baseball world talking and the nation's capital hoping...

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Comments

im of the mindset that it would take a lot of unforseenables (injuries, ineptitude) to take the nats out of contention at the end of August

its springtime, after all

They will!

even if I have to pull that meaning out of a hat after each game…

MLB may want a winner in Washington

Do the four major sports leagues have a pact that hates Washington? Theres already the Skins and the Wizards, and the Caps are the hardest team to be a fan of. Cant we at least have one winner?

If MLB wanted a winner in DC

They wouldn’t have given the TV rights to Baltimore’s owner.

I would wish

that simply doing nothing could count as ‘having addressed the offensive part", but I don’t believe in magic. The Nats’ hopes rest with a truly improved pitching staff. Is it improved enough?

Maybe........

Probably……….I have them winning between 85-95 games.This should put them in a spot to either get hot or have a drop off in September……..

As for the sports “gods” hating Washington teams? Thats why its important to figure out how to get STRAS pitching in September.With their first playoff run the NATS will imediately move into second place in Washington sports importance

Did notice Mr. Gammons commented on that...

Though nothing anyone with the Nats has said supports that thinking…

95 wins?

Wow. That’s inconceivable.

much less of a chance Sept. will be meaningful if you leave out Stras from the first month or so

all games count the same in the overall record. And what if you leave him out, but then once in he gets dinged up here and there and ends up pitching fewer than 160 innings?

April games.............

do not have the same meaning as OCTOBER games……….

he said he wanted him in september

but if you want to gamble on not having him for many months of the regular season to have him available for the postseason that is something else … that I’d also disagree with, because you’re talking about a bubble-playoff team with Stras’s 160 IP and much less than that with a month of it off

Pretty much.

85 games however is very reachable, maybe even 90 with some good luck and additional roster moves.

with health last year we could have done 85 wins

for this season, with health on our side… in addition to the solid additions to SP and the BP we’re easily capable of 90 Wins in 2012

Its easy to tally at the end of the year

fact is, no one could have guessed Matt Kemp would be second in WAR to Ellsbury, or just that Ellsbury, Kemp, Bautista, Pedroia, and Braun would lead the league in WAR. Bautista in the top five, sure, everyone else…? Braun borderline?

Who makes that list up preseason?

So while its fun to imagine win totals preseason, it all comes down to choosing a fastball, splitter, or slider in game 74, that can lead to a punch out or grand salami. That happens one way or the other a few times a season and you are overreaching your run differential and your “pythagorean record” that stat geeks love to analyze gets all screwy.

So is it fun to examen yes, sure always. But play well early and run into the right teams out of contention in September and all of sudden your sitting easy against AAA competition in the most important games of your season. Or your not, and your playing the hot Nationals at the wrong time in Sept. like the Braves.

Can anyone pull up the 2011 predicted win total based on ZIPS, or BP, Fangraphs or whatever, and see how accurate they are? Because i can damn as well certainly guarantee that the 2010 SF giants weren’t predicted to be much of a playoff contender with Aubrey Huff at 1b, Torres in CF, Juan Uribe at SS, Nate Schierholz in RF (still don’t know who he is) or the Cardinals sitting pretty and winning the WS on July 4, 2011. Sh*t happens. So this season has to play itself out. Make a few better pitches during crunch time, and you got yourself a season. Lets hope for the best.

I agree
Braun is (or was) a regularly assumed top player at the start of every season he's played
still 2.8 WAR more than his best season.
that wasn't what you set as the bar

he is an understandable top-5, not best, which is what I responded to

on average

The fangraphs projections were off by 7.6 wins per team. They hit just 1 on the nose (the White Sox), and were with within 5 on 11 out of 30.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fan-standings-2011/

oops

Make that 7.9, I left out the Padres.

PECOTA was off by an average of 9.4. They were within 5 on 12 teams, but off by more than 15 on 7 teams, including missing the D-backs by 27 and the Twins by 32.

http://onlybucs.net/forums/index.php?topic=8633.0

10 Wins

means a sub-par to playoff team this year.

if you stick around

75-85 your bound to be close right?

September Baseball

I feel if the team has a shot at 80+ wins in September, the games are meaningful. Maybe my fan philosophy will change with the new Wild Card berths, but I’m a firm believer that making the playoffs isn’t the measuring stick of success for MLB teams. World Series rings are important, don’t get me wrong, I just think statistically speaking 80 or more wins is gratifying.

Call it jaded from years of watching the Montreal Expos disband year after year and never witnessing continuity, but the 162-game season is long and tribulating (I just made that word up FYI) and winning 80+ games is no small feat. Maybe I’ll bump my expectations up to 90+, but for the time being I’m happy with 80 or more.

Dear Washington Nationals: Please win a World Series so I can stop being pleased with mediocrity.

On the thread topic: damifino. Check back with me on Labor Day

In other news, today MLB Trade Rumors posted a list of players for each team that are out of options and must pass through waivers to be sent to the minor. Listed for the Nationals: Roger Bernadina; Tyler Clippard; Ross Detwiler; Tom Gorzelanny; and Henry Rodriguez. No surprised there.

In other news, Justin Maxwell is out of options. If the Yankees waive him (I think he has a better chance of making that team than Meyers does) I’d take him for the 25 spot on the Nationals before I’d take Mike Cameron.

Maxwell over Cameron...hmm.

Ask me about it again when Maxwell’s waived.

MOAR Strikeouts!

I think Maxwell v. Cameron is more about Cameron being bad than Maxwell being good.

Well ... stipulated

But Maxwell did OPS .945 with 16 HRs in just 48 games before tearing the labrum in his shoulder while going over a wall to rob a player of a HR. What tips it for me is that, in addition to being 10 years (!) younger than Cameron, Maxwell has pretty consistently toasted LH pitching. As a guy who can be a defensive replacement, PR, and perhaps give you decent at bats against lefties (as bad as he’s been, he OPS’s .753 against LHP at the big league level and pretty consistently mashed them at the minor league level), he could fill a niche for the Nationals if he doesn’t make the Yankees.

Lawyered.

I am a little sad that we are trying to pick up some marginal AA/AAA CF that looks to be a 4th OF to try out, instead of sticking with what we have every reason to believe will be sub-par production.

Well, we are talking about the 25th spot on the roster

Maxwell has a fighting shot at making the Yankees this year (he had a good shot until they re-signed Andruw Jones, which downgraded his odds somewhat), and the Yankees are routinely in the conversation for top team in MLB. Which I only mention to show that there is no shame in the thought that the Nationals might be interested in him if he’s available, or that in that role he might have something to offer.

Even last year

I felt the team was playing “meaningful” games in September. Being in contention for the postseason is a different question. I just wanted to see them post their best record since coming to DC, and even though they just missed that mark, that last tear sure was fun to watch. Perhaps even more so than the first one. Too bad we couldn’t have rescheduled ATL for a shot at 500…

I think 85 wins is the low-water threshold for this club. I would be thrilled to see the annual 10-game improvement continue, but I’m just not sure how feasible that is considering the strength of our division. To me, over 95 wins seems seriously unlikely barring perfect health and production all around (plus a little luck), and under 85 would indicate regression, underachievement and/or roster decimation via injuries. So I’ll take the middle ground, 90 wins…which should put us into both the meaningful game and postseason contention in September.

I'm pretty sure it was a Dodgers game that was cancelled.

I think it’s crazy to believe that a 5-win improvement would be an abject failure. And I think that an improvement of 10 games in this neighborhood would be an astonishing feat, not the “middle ground”.

There’s hope, and there’s just off-the-charts wild optimism.

Seriously, folks. The team did nothing to improve their terrible offense from last year. They seemingly improved their slightly-above-average pitching, but unless they plan on having a team ERA in the 2’s or the very low 3’s, they will simply have to score a lot more runs than they did last year. They will have to have a lot more big games than they had last year. In 2011, the Nats scored 6 or more runs in 38 games; they allowed 6 or more runs in 43 games. They won 84% of the time when they scored 6 or more runs, they lost 90% of the time when they allowed 6 or more runs. In the 91 games when both teams scored 5 or less runs, the Nats’ won 53% of the time, but this is probably mostly due to luck. I say this because in this range, the winner is more likely determined by random factors, though things like quality of bullpens and quality of benches probably become more prominent as well. However, the 2-3 win discrepancy between the Nats actual winning percentage and the Pythagorean winning expectancy covers that same 3% we see in the “low scoring” games.

So, let’s say that the Nat’s improved pitching allows 6 or greater runs in 5 fewer games, and the Nats “improved” offense scores 6 or greater runs in 5 additional games. These would be substantial improvements in both directions. Given a balanced expected winning percentage in low-scoring games, this would give the Nats about 85-86 wins. That’s a reasonable (i.e. attainable) goal, but it would require a lot of things to go right.

I am certainly on the bandwagon that the Nats do not have to do anything to improve offensively, based on injured players returning, and an added season of experience for the youngsters. I only see Morse as regressing offensively in 2012….I believe he overachieved last season. That does not say that I would not want to see an addition to bolster our offense. Looking back at the 1991 Braves season, even though the Braves are credited for their pitching in terms of their success, that team was pretty loaded in the OF with speed AND power, and much better than our current OF. Having said all that, I believe that without any further improvements offensively, you are probably hitting the projection very accurately…..84-86 wins, especially in our division. The danger is that one or two key injuries (which we have every season), will cause a regression to a sub .500 team once again.

RobBob, that is just not true.

I read just the other day that Davey had taught the entire OF a dirty limerick, which was described as “highly offensive”.

Heh.

Upping the “offense” one highly offensive limrick at a time!

And speaking of highly offensive, that projected OF out of ST could certainly qualify. Expecting my gag reflex to kick in.

Highly offensive offense.

That either sounds amazing, or eyeball-blood- and gag-reflex- inducing. Take your pick.

85-95

Rob……..While 95 is “everything going right” below 85 is a complete failure. And while you’re not a proponant of improvement from within. Every offensive player except MORSE should have a much better year then ‘11……The K’s {your buddy DEZ being the worst here} need to come down across the board………..

My offical number is 89 wins………..

Rizzo points to head

Amanda Comak:
How the new CBA could affect the #Nationals investment in Edwin Jackson: wtim.es/Ahc0ss #nats #MLB

For September to happen, April is the key

It would be great if this ends up happening and the Nats are actually playing for something in September. I was looking at the schedule to begin the season and there is some reason for optimism.

April is a big month. Getting the season kicked off with some wins would generate some serious excitement and the schedule lines up for the Nats to do just that.

Look at what April’s schedule is:

@ Cubs (3)
@ Mets (3)

Reds (4)
Astros (4)
Marlins (3)

@ Padres (3)
@ Dodgers (3)

The Cubs, Mets, Astros and Padres are probably the 4 worst teams in the NL this year.

I could see them going 4 -2 on their first road trip, 7 – 4 at home and 3 -3 on their second.

14 – 9 would be a heck of a start.

The Nats really cannot afford Morse and LaRoche to have slow starts again this year. They have to come out of ST firing on all cylinders to take advantage of that schedule.

I think that home stretch is going to be harder than you think.

The Reds and Marlins are giong to be tough this year.

The Marlins are bound to be tough after dropping all that money this offseason.

True

But with that much pressure to be good they could stumble out of the gate. Also, it will depend on whether or not the pitching matches lineup and the Nats catch Johnson. If the fish don’t skip anyone Johnson would start the opener, but that’s not usually the case at the beginning of the season.

As for the Reds, the Nats should match up well this year against good hitting teams because of their pitching staff. Where I think they’ll struggle is against teams that can match up with them on the pitching side of things.

Could you explain your second paragraph?
No, I like to make unsubstantiated claims and then expect everyone to agree with them.

It’s a very un-scientific opinion of mine that good pitching beats good hitting. Just look at the playoffs, it’s usually the team with better pitching that advances. This especially seems to be true when a good pitching team runs into a juggernaut offense. Think of San Francisco vs. Texas the year before last. The Giants had a great pitching staff, but the Rangers had a phenomenal offense. The Giants won the series in 5 games.

However, because teams have finite resources typically teams with a good pitching staff are challenged offensively, consequently when they run into another good pitching staff they can struggle. So it’s my personal opinion that teams with good pitching will do well against good offensive teams with average or below average staffs.

Good pitching will beat good hitting any time, and vice versa.

~Bob Veale, 1966

Veale PECOTA
Isn't that when the families of

Bob Veale and Bill Pecota intermarry?

What if the families of...

Biff Pocoroba and Abe Vigoda intermarry?

Toughest hyphenated name ever?

mmmm..... PECOTA.....

“Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa.”
Casey Stengel

Reply fail to RobBob
Clearly a sentiment shared among the cognoscenti

(And the reply was fine, it just automatically formats that way.)

True

But the Astros are the worst team in the NL.

Even if you only go 3 – 1 against them, you can still split with Cincy and just win the series against Florida (which the Nats have had a hard time doing the last few years) and you can get to 7 -4 on the home stand.

They were crappy last year, too

And the Nationals still struggled against them. I call it the “curse of Berkman.”

Even bad teams win 60 games.
Well, no

the Nats won 59 games two years in a row
/ducks/

I said bad, not worst team in baseball.
so...

You don’t think we could go 7-4 in that stretch? I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a lock. If I were a betting man I’d set 6-5 as the over under, and I’d say 7-4 is just as likely as 5-6.

I fully agree, and I do not think that the original poster was at all being overly confident in a 14-9 overall record during that time-span. I think 13-10 would be somewhat of a let-down, and maybe a cause for early concern.

I think that we could go 7-4. I think we could go 14-9. I think we could go 18-5. But...

I also think we could go 4-7 in that home stretch or open the season 11-12. Baseball teams can be streaky. The Nationals frequently lost games they should have won, and won games they should have lost.

Speigner for the reverse lock W!
won games they should have lost
I thought it was a silent G.

Bart: I saw you last night at the spelling bee
Milhouse: I knew right then that it was L-U-V
Nelson: I gotta spell out what you mean to me
Ralph: Cause I can no longer be a silent “G”.
Party Posse: I’ve gotta spell out what
Ralph: I’ve gotta spell out
Party Posse: I’ve gotta spell out what you mean to me
Ralph: What you mean to me.

L. T. Smash: Man, they’re gonna be big, and you stood in their way.
Seymour Skinner: No, I didn’t. I even came in early and made orange drink.
L. T. Smash: Orange drink? What do you live with your mama?
Seymour Skinner: She lives with me.

Are you sure it wasn't the Beastie Boys who did that song originally?
They almost have to have a good start to have a shot at September

If the Nats falter against the weak part of their schedule then they’re going to have to put up that type of record against the better teams.

Concerning, is that we seemingly played to the level of our competition last season, whether against good or bad teams. The Nats have to play better against the weaker opposition this season.

Gosh

We need some REAL baseball around here.

Predicting wins and losses a series at a time…. We are going to lose to some inferior teams and beat some superior teams….and I hope the players take it one pitch, one inning, and one game at a time. I will too. That is the fun of the season.

Don’t give up hope even if we have a crappy April. During the season, the Nats are always a day away from starting a winning streak.

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