Ask Davey Johnson how John Lannan gets himself in trouble and he'll tell you, as he did in a press conference after a September 16th start against the team formerly known as the Florida Marlins. The then-26-year-old lefty, who turned 27 later that month, gave up three runs early against the Fish that day, surrendering a line drive RBI single to center by catcher John Buck and an RBI line drive double to right by Mike Stanton before a ground ball single to center Gaby Sanchez made it a 3-0 game after two and a half innings. Lannan received no run-support that night in a 3-0 loss.
It was one of a string of seven starts from mid-August through mid-September in which the Nationals' '05 11th Round pick had struggled, going (1-6) over the stretch and receiving little support from the offense (just 10 runs in 7 games) or defense as he gave up 46 hits, 27 runs, 16 earned, 18 walks and 5 HR's in 34.2 IP over which he struck out just 16 batters. Asked if it was hard to see Lannan struggle down the stretch, Davey Johnson said, "Yeah. We all expect a lot out of him. He's got good stuff. He's pitched out of some jams, making quality pitches, and in this league, occasionally, if you leave one out over the plate and up, you're going to get hit."

"He gave up three runs in six innings against a pretty good hitting ballclub, but we just didn't give him too much help," Johnson said. As for Lannan's own issues, the manager said, "He sometimes overthrows. I like it when he's using that sinker and not trying to overthrow it, he gets a lot of ground balls. And when you see line drives to the outfield, or wherever, the fastball's up. But he's got great stuff."
While Lannan struggled with a 4.74 ERA, 5.22 FIP, 3.65 BB/9 and a .311 BAA in Sept/October, 25-year-old left-hander Ross Detwiler had one of the strongest stretches of his career after Nats' skipper Davey Johnson moved him back into the starting rotation. Detwiler ended the year on a high note, going (2-0) in three starts in which he gave up just 10 hits and 2 runs, 2 ER in 19.0 IP. The Nationals' manager saw something he liked in the Nats' '07 1st Round pick.
"We've had high hopes [for Ross Detwiler] ," Johnson said after he'd decided to move Detwiler back to the rotation in August, "He's very poised out there, makes quality pitches, I mean he had a great Spring Training. By all [accounts] he probably should have made the club out of Spring Training. He was probably the best pitcher in the Spring." Asked if the lefty had done enough down the stretch to earn a spot in the 2012 starting rotation, Johnson said, "there's a lot of guys hungry to get into this rotation and we've seen it in September."
"And I don't care if it's any time of the year," Johnson continued, "[It's] big league ballgames. You're pitching against clubs that are trying to establish their year. Every player that goes out there is trying to do well enough to play another year or win a pennant. And the effort that you're seeing [from Detwiler] is outstanding and he's definitely in the picture in the starting rotation."
Lannan finished his fifth season with Washington with a (10-13) record and a career-best 3.70 ERA and 4.28 FIP over 33 GS and 184.2 IP, with more K's, 106 (5.17 K/9) than he's collected since 2008 when he struck out 117 in 182.0 IP (5.79 K/9). Lannan led the Nationals in wins, games started and innings pitched. The lefty walked 76 BB (3.70 BB/9), but led the Nats in GB% (54.1%), which was the 6th highest GB% among NL pitchers and he had the second-highest double play total in the National League.
After the Nationals acquired Gio Gonzalez in a trade with Oakland, D.C. GM Mike Rizzo said Gonzalez would likely be slotted between the Nats' power right-handers Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann, and after that, Rizzo said, it will be, "... 25-year-old Ross Detwiler, you've got a 31-year-old Chien-Ming Wang [and] you've got a 27-year-old John Lannan. That's three guys that we feel that give us great depth and great ability-levels." All three figure in the Nationals' plans. Rizzo told reporters earlier this winter, "They are three quality pitchers, so I don't see them not being on the big league club. But there's going to be competition so we'll see how that all pans out during Spring Training."
Chien-Ming Wang's not moving to the bullpen is he? With the time it takes him to get lose and the injury history. Both left-handers (unless one's dealt? And will the Nats trade another pitcher after dealing MLB-ready arms in Tom Milone and Brad Peacock?) will likely be battling it out for the fifth and final spot in the 2012 Opening Day rotation. Ross Detwiler has no more options, making the decision more difficult yet. "We're going to have great competition for rotation starters," the Nationals' general manager told the ESPN980 Radio hosts Thom Loverro and Kevin Sheehan, "We've never had that problem here since I've been around."
0 recs | 74 comments
MOAR AYEBROWZ
Tvm950 - January 9, 2012
+ moar ayebrowz!...
cat daddy3000 - January 10, 2012
Lannan's September 16th start
What Joe Posnanski refers to as a “Solidy Start” (SAHL-uh-dee start), noun. When a pitcher throws exactly six innings and allows exactly three earned runs.
Way to go Moooooose!
http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/p/joewords.html
PerryMason - January 9, 2012
I'm way more comfortable with lanaan than det
Benson L - January 9, 2012
Go Bambi!!!
cat daddy3000 - January 9, 2012
More than 5 starting pitchers used in a season.
While teams have a 5 pitcher rotation they usually have between 9 and 10 pitchers make starts. Last year the Nats had 11 pitchers start a game. 4 of them are not on the team: Jason Marquis was traded during last season; Brad Peacock and Tom Milone were traded in Dec; and Livan Hernandez is a free agent. In 2010 the Nats had 14 pitchers make starts.
If one of them goes into the bullpen there will be chances to start. There are always injuries and scheduling issues. Stephen Strasburg will be shut down.
HG_VA - January 9, 2012
more specifically, six starting pitchers used in a season
unless you can think of any other pitchers who should get a chance? Maya.. Gorzo..
yeah, I know, nothing ever goes the way we want it to.
dc Roach - January 9, 2012
I wouldnt mind seing Arnesen get a chance
and Rosenbaum could be ready in the second half
jeff550 - January 9, 2012
Erik Arneson surely did have a break out season!
Only Peacock was better but not by much, however Arneson threw more innings!
Top starters in AA Harrisburg.
Brad Peacock : 81.4 xIP, 1.77 tRA, 27.4 pRAA
Erik Arneson : 102.9 xIP, 2.80 tRA, 22.8 pRAA
Shairon Martis : 134.6 xIP, 3.30 tRA, 22.3 pRAA
Brad Meyers : 36.5 xIP, 2.02 tRA, 11.3 pRAA
The loss of Martis might hurt except we’ll have to see. He may have requested a
change of scenery. Getting Meyers back to go with Arneson might be what
the Nats need. But Arneson is now 27. Meyers is 26, and its likely he’ll be
returned. Peacock of course everyone knows about.
plebescite - January 9, 2012
yeah, but we are definitely in long shot territory here (by our new rotation standards)
Arneson looks great until he hit AAA, where he got killed both years (SSS admittedly). I
likelove his control though..This is the kind of guy you’re happy to see in September to potentially replace Strasburg, but would you use him as a mid-season callup if two of the big six weren’t available? I guess you would, because the other options are most likely worse :)
dc Roach - January 10, 2012
Realizing that yes they will end up using more than five...
A decision will have to be made about which five start the season in the rotation and with Wang in the rotation (since throwing out of the pen doesn’t seem like an option) and Detwiler out of options, a decision will have to made in Spring, barring any injuries to the top 3, issues with Wang, etc. But yes, should have noted that they’ll of course use more than five, had Rizzo quotes to that effect that got lost somewhere in the writing…
Patrick Reddington - January 9, 2012
AND don't be forgetting: UNLIKE Detwiler and Wang ...
LANNAN STILL DOES HAVE an OPTION left!
plebescite - January 9, 2012
Is that how we're going to treat former Opening Day starters?
cat daddy3000 - January 10, 2012
Heck yeah...Bambi needs MOAR antlers!
Maybe some time in Syracuse (or Harrisburg) will help ’em grow. Seven innings or bust!
Heh.
(Sorry CD3K…he’s such an easy target. Even Thumper has gotten impatient.) ;-)
MissB - January 10, 2012 via mobile
Great Caesar’s Ghost! Stop calling me Chief… I mean Bambi!
PerryMason - January 10, 2012
maybe if they just skip his starts versus the Phillies?
he was one of the “play the kids!” just now evolving into a crafty veteran lefthander….
calm down, Thumper…
cat daddy3000 - January 10, 2012
I would certainly hope not
Lannan would be a perfectly competent #4 in a number of rotations across both leagues. He’ll take the ball every 5 days, give you 6-7IP per outing, and keep the ball on the ground more often than not.
Plebescite / peric is correct in stating that Lannan does have an option left, but I personally believe that Detwiler would need to have an outstanding spring against “A” lineups to make the rotation. If he shows something less than that, the team can stash him in the bullpen along with Gorzelanny as a long reliever / spot starter.
BinM - January 10, 2012
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
Now, a Nationals World Series Championship in 2012 would make my sports year perfect!
sullyzz - January 10, 2012
Congrats.
One of the most eye-bleedingest poor offensive displays I’ve ever seen, but….
RobBobS - January 10, 2012
No.....Not Poor Offensive Displays.....But an EDUCATION on Defense
WELCOME to SEC Football. That’s what happens when you have two defensive powerhouses on the field. Alabama and LSU both have fantastic Offensive squads, but they also both have NFL caliber defensive units. Reminds me of the Super Bowl Champion Baltimore Ravens that had such a smothering defense. Remember, LSU put up over 40 points in 9 of their games this season, which included 40 against #4 Oregon (Rose Bowl Champ), 47 against West Virginia (Orange Bowl Champ), 41 against #5 Arkansas (Cotton Bowl Champ), and 42 against Georgia. However, against Alabama, they could only muster a total of 9 Points and 323 Total Yards in TWO GAMES (8 quarters and an overtime period) against the Alabama Defense. There are a LOT of players that were on that field last night, that you will be seeing on Sunday afternoons in the near future.
sullyzz - January 10, 2012
If you'd put some Visine in yer eyes
you’d have seen how good football is supposed to be played. Bama hog-tied an LSU offense that just went out and brutalized teams this year – and I mean good teams. Bama didn’t rack up a lot of points? Hell, all they ever needed was three – and I said as much after they kicked the first field-goal.
Whupass - January 10, 2012
I like Lannen and DET..........
As every one has already said………………You need more then 5 starters………….
Also I am not sold on Wang………….
Our goal two seasons ago was to get 5 pitchers better then LIVO. Now its get 5 pitchers better then Lannen.
artistfork - January 10, 2012
i have this nagging sense
That of the three lhs we had last september, the one we traded away will have a better mlb career from this point on than the two we kept.
dc rl - January 10, 2012
Perhaps, but maybe not as good as the one they traded for, hence the reason for the trade. We’ll just have to wait and see.
PerryMason - January 10, 2012
Don't look back
never know who’s gaining on you.
Hell, right now I wouldn’t swap the National’s pitching staff for any in the league. Seriously. We’ve come a long way, in a short time.
btw, p&c in 39 and a wake-up.
Whupass - January 10, 2012
I’m still leaning toward waiting on the PECOTA numbers to come out to do an in depth analysis of how well the Nats rotation stacks up with the rest of the division/league (they came out in February last year), but I’m really excited by what we have. Bring it Phillies!
dc Roach - January 10, 2012
right?
You would rather have this staff than the Phillies?
I know they are old but they have 3 #1’s who are all able to win the CY Young this year. (they finished 2,3,5 in this years balloting).
barf
Bsullivan - January 10, 2012
no, the Phillies are definitely the best
but I’m still looking forward matching up with them this year. Remember what the Nats managed vs them with last year’s staff. :)
Here’s to the underdogs!
dc Roach - January 10, 2012
Cy Young? Ha, Cy Old maybe
So tell me: who da Philles got you’d trade Strasburg for, one for one? Hah? Who? Just as I thought.
Phillies [spits]. Y’know, I actually pity them sunzabiches, I really do [see George C. Scott’s opening monologue in "Patton]. Halladay’s doubtless traumatized by that big snake and he’ll be in therapy half the season; Lee ain’t the man he once was (but then, who is?); Oswalt’s shopping hizzass all over with no takers; Hamels don’t scare me none, so after Halladay get’s offa the shrink’s couch, Worley’s the best they got. I am unimpressed.
Braves are the threat, Brad. The Braves! [Patton pounds the map-table]. Come August 2012, the stinking Phillies will be fighting it out with the Fish for third place. Just you wait.
Whupass - January 10, 2012
Did you know that Francis Ford Coppola wrote that opening monologue?
He wrote it a number of years before Scott was involved in the project (Rod Steiger was originally suppose to play the part) and it was rejected. When Scott became involved he was not happy with the opening and the producers said something to the effect of “well you probably won’t like it but we do have this…” and the rest is history.
PerryMason - January 10, 2012
They filmed it in two takes
and it was two only because there was one change of camera-angle
Whupass - January 10, 2012
I guess you are using Patton Quotes
But Cliff Lee had a 2.40 ERA with a 1.027 ERA and over 9k’s per 9.
Roy had similar stats with lower ERA.
Hamels had a 2.79 ERA with a sub 1.00 whip.
Bsullivan - January 10, 2012
So you'd be willing to swap Strasburg for any one of them?
Hm?
Whupass - January 10, 2012
No. But not because of the results I expect in 2012
If I had to bet my house on which starting pitching staff would be better in 2012, even up, my money would be on the Phillies. I’d probably even take Halladay over Strasburg, although it would hurt either way. The reason that you don’t trade Stras for Halladay is because Stras is scintillating stuff that comes a lot younger and a lot cheaper.
d_c_guy - January 10, 2012
Yer honner, let the record indicate that this here witness answered "no"
Whupass - January 10, 2012
A bird in hand
is worth two in a bush. That should be used commonly in prospects.
Strasburg is VERY good. But we can only hope he reaches what Lee and Halladay have been doing (R.H. hasn’t had an ERA above 3 in 4 years.) And there are very real health concerns with Strasburg.
I don’t swap strasburg for Halladay because of salary, timing etc. But their rotations is light years above ours no question. Plus would I rather have 150 innings from Strasburg next year, or 250 from Halladay?
Bsullivan - January 10, 2012
Yer honner, this here witness answered "no" as well
I think
Whupass - January 10, 2012
They said the same thing about Rommel
PerryMason - January 10, 2012
Montgomery could never hit Rommel's curve
It wasn’t until Rommel got himself onto a field where he couldn’t throw his curve that Montgomery was able to just push across the winning run.
d_c_guy - January 10, 2012
Rommel had no bench
kills ye’ every time
Whupass - January 10, 2012
Wild-eyed fanaticism aside,
the Phillies clearly have the best staff in the league.
Stras might be better than Halladay next year, but it’ll be close — and Halladay will likely be able to go an extra 50 innings.
Lee will be better than my fave Zimmermann.
Hamels will be much better than Gonzalez, and I have high hopes for NatGio.
Blanton matches with Wang/Lannan/Detwiler, probably.
Don’t know about their fifth starter. But the top three will be plenty better than the Nats’ top three.
RobBobS - January 10, 2012
Probably Vance Worley
Right now I’d take Worley over Lannan, Detwiler or Wang. Worley is 24 years old, 11-3 with a 3.01 ERA (in that ballpark, too). Add a 1.23 WHIP, 8.1 K/9 and an ERA+ of 129? You bet. Compare with:
Lannan: 27yo, 10-13, 3.70 (career best) ERA) , 1.462 WHIP, 5.2 K/9, 104 ERA+
Wang: 32yo, 4-3, 4.04 ERA, 1.283 WHIP, 3.6 K/9, 96 ERA+
Detwiler: 26yo, 4-5, 3.00 ERA, 1.258 WHIP, 5.6 K/9, 129 ERA+
The fact that Detwiler did it in September, and only totalled 66 IP (to 131.2 for Worley), and has a much lower K rate keep me from being fogged by his late season surge. Could he be better than Worley long term? Sure. If I had to bet, though, I’d take Worley.
d_c_guy - January 10, 2012
a bit off topic
but it’s not the Phillies staff that I think will be their weak point this season – it’s the offense. Without Howard for the season (or a chunk of it) I think they might look a bit old and frail. They just have to lose Utley and then they are really staring down the barrell.
If the Nats do sign Prince, I think they could be in deep trouble.
Mezza - January 10, 2012
I do think the Philbert's offense is their achilles heel
And their bullpen, even with Papelblown, isn’t as good as the Braves’ or the Nationals’ bullpen.
d_c_guy - January 10, 2012
Give that man a see-gar!
He has nailed it.
Whupass - January 10, 2012
Barry Larkin live video stream
MLB:
Watch NOW on @MLB.com and @MLBNetwork as HOF electee Barry Larkin is introduced to the media in NYC … atmlb.com/yH3qXz
dc Roach - January 10, 2012
he had some nice things to say about Davey Johnson as a manager
dc Roach - January 10, 2012
I don't like the idea of 'stashing' a SP in the bullpen...
because they’ll lose arm strength and stamina out there. Detwiler took a few starts to get going after being in the bullpen last year. I’d rather have someone on 5 days rest training to throw 7 innings. That said, Lannan is the only SP candidate that can be sent down – the other two require a spot on the 25-man. We’re going to need all three after the Gio trade, so we can’t afford to waive or trade any of them. I think Stammen would have to get sent down to keep one of the three SPs in the ’pen considering how many spots are already locked up – Storen, Clippard, Burnett, HRod, Gorzo + FA veteran (Coffey maybe?)
I agree that’s it not really in good form to send Lannan down, but it does seem to be the best option. If Solis’s elbow is ok (he’s throwing again according to the Times), then maybe you can trade Lannan. Gorzo, Stammen, and Maya (god help us) move up the food chain. I would think any Lannan trade would happen in Spring Training once somebody goes down to injury.
rfk428 - January 10, 2012
I agree here
I think a late ST move would need to be made if Lannan is on the losing end of the rotation spot. He is still a valued starter, and we could probably flip him for a swingman who can sit in the pen. We won’t be looking at anyone good, and probably won’t “win” the trade from a value perspective but we would win the fact that we don’t have to send Lannan down since he doesn’t deserve it just being the guy with an option left.
It would definitely be sad to see John go, but if he honestly is the loser in the rotation, then that shows how far the organization has come in such a short time.
Mattionals - January 10, 2012
This is insane.
John Lannan is not an ace pitcher. He is, however, a very good, cost-controlled back of the rotation guy. To trade him for a “swingman who can sit in the pen” is a very bad return. You seem to know this, but for some reason think that the Nationals should do it solely to avoid sending Lannan down. If we wanted to trade Lannan, there would be takers, he represents a significant upgrade over many #5 starters. The reason that we aren’t likely to trade Lannan is that we will certainly need spot starters, and there is always the possibility that either Wang or Detwieler will be a bust. Even if Wang is successful, he’ll be a free agent next year, and we’ll need a cheap SP again. Furthermore, while Stammen and Gorzo have started before, moving the them in to the rotation for an extended time period will be harmful to the ’pen’s strength.
You claim that we would win by “not having to send Lannan down since he doesn’t deserve it.” I could be wrong here, but I’m pretty sure Lannan will still get paid millions of dollars to play a game that he probably really likes. The Nationals have significantly promoted Lannan, and been an immense boon to his career. Consider the fact that John Lannan was an opening day starter, that he had only 220 IP in the minors before making the Major League team. I think Lannan can afford to wait a bit for a chance to start. Who knows perhaps he be able to rework his mechanics to be even more effective.
chubias - January 10, 2012
I think we are at the point with Lannan
That what you see is what you get. He is definitely a serviceable starter and fits well at the number 5 spot. Yes, we need more arms considering that we don’t have Milone or Peacock to make spot starts. Is Lannan at the point where he can refuse a demotion to the minors? You already said it, he was an opening day starter so what makes you think he will accept being sent down? Realistically the loser in ST will go to the pen and no deal will be made, but are we simply holding onto Lannan because he was an opening day starter for us? I understand we want to promote from within but honestly if we have players who are better and knocking on the door we have to sweep out the old. Lannan is also probably at the peak of his trade value with team control, option year, and numbers so why not try and flip him?
Mattionals - January 10, 2012
Lannan cannot refuse assignment
since he has less than 5 years service time and minor league options left.
rfk428 - January 10, 2012 via iPhone app
Isn't the whole point of options that they can't be refused?
chubias - January 10, 2012
A player can refuse an option
After 5 years of MLB service time, as rfk428 stated. Lannan is still within the cutoff however.
Mattionals - January 10, 2012
In answer to your other questions,
1. No, we aren’t holding Lanan because he was an opening day starter. We are holding him because he is a still valuable player.
2. I am not opposed to every trade scenario, but I don’t think that a solid SP should be traded for a swingman. We should and could get a better value for Lannan. The Cubs signed Paul Maholm whose numbers are very similar to Lannan’s. I think a number of Pirates fans would be happy to see Maholm back, but were glad that the didn’t take his $10 million option. The Pirates are still looking to fill a rotation. As are Boston and New York, both of whom have significantly reigned in spending. For teams that aren’t looking to pay the costs of Edwin Jackson, Roy Oswalt, or Hiroki Kuroda, Lannan might offer a bargain option.
chubias - January 10, 2012
Given what we have
I’d keep him then, it just stinks to send him down.
Wait………
6 MAN ROTATION!
Mattionals - January 10, 2012
Agreed. Lannan is a solid starting pitcher
We don’t HAVE to trade him. There are other teams, however, that probably feel they NEED another starting pitcher. We have the leverage here! This puts us in a fantastic (and novel, so it seems) position: if someone wants him, we should be able to get very good value for him. Sure as heck not some “swingman.”
ricksnats - January 10, 2012
I think some are taking "swingman" as a bad thing
Ogando is someone I consider a swingman, and a really good one. He can work effectively in the bullpen and as a starter. I fully expect to see Ogando again next year as a spot starter and coming out of the pen for up to three innings to pitch. What I am saying is this team could use another Gorzelanny type guy by trading Lannan. Can start for you and eat innings and can come in and pitch effectively out of the pen. This is Davey’s “ideal” 6th man in the rotation.
Mattionals - January 10, 2012
A swingman, it seems to me, is by definition not an effective full-time starter
Which Lannan is. To me, that makes the equation Lannan > swingman.
ricksnats - January 10, 2012
These things tend to sort themselves out
Once ST starts the players will show who goes where. 40 days of wandering in the wilderness until pitchers and catchers report …
d_c_guy - January 10, 2012
...the longest 40 days of the year.
RobBobS - January 10, 2012
I agree
Not out of the question to think Wang starts slow and needs some DL time to start the year. Certainly can’t count on him yet to pitch a full year.
We really need Solis/Meyers/Purke to have good seasons and put themselves into play for a Sept call up.
rfk428 - January 10, 2012
I'd love to see Solis, Meyer or Purke next year.
I’m doubtful on both Lefties that they won’t be fully healthy, and honestly I think Meyer is destined for the pen, but what a power arm he would be!
Mattionals - January 10, 2012
"These things tend to sort themselves out Once ST starts the players will show who goes where."
Why wait til then if we can make the decision for the Nats now?Patrick Reddington - January 10, 2012
Actually, 39 and a wake-up
we’re gettin’ short, boyz
Whupass - January 10, 2012
Thirty-nine:
Not short.
February is the longest month of the year.
RobBobS - January 10, 2012
At my great age, I cannot believe that I am still so foolish as to wish time away
it moves plenty fast on it’s own, with no one’s help.
Whupass - January 10, 2012
Nice update on Juan Nicasio on Yahoo Sports
Scariest Nats-related moment of the season…..glad to see the young man is back on the mound!
ricksnats - January 10, 2012
Boyz, ya'll see that gorgeous little lady Lannan just got married to?
Wow. He’ll do well to hobble to the ballpark every day – let alone pitch.
Whupass - January 10, 2012
There go the precious bodily fluids… trade him ASAP
PerryMason - January 10, 2012
yup
Whupass - January 11, 2012
but he he's young
be OK
Whupass - January 11, 2012
Two writers say give Lannan an extension.
Adam Kilgore
Pete Kerzel
HG_VA - January 10, 2012
Kilgore just suggests it
And Kerzel … well, I regard Kerzel as an O’s guy who is out of his element on the Nats beat. I hope MASN fills Goessling’s old post pretty quickly.
I like Lannan, but I wouldn’t sign him to an extension at this point. He’s good enough to keep around to give the kids time to develop, but he’s not a FA until after 2013. Hopefully by then the Nationals will have five (or even six) pitchers that are better.
d_c_guy - January 10, 2012
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