Federal Baseball

ha

obviously teasing.

Bsullivan - January 23, 2012 reply

Morse started off as a SS, justing saying

CapsVT - January 23, 2012 reply

I'd want a heck of a lot more than Upton for Morse

ricksnats - January 23, 2012 reply

Only do it if they can get Upton for Flores...

…probably would be a trade deadline deal though. Rays will desperately want to get something out of him.

Natsbat4W - January 23, 2012 reply

I think it would be a mistake to trade Flores.

chubias - January 23, 2012 reply

???

Natsbat4W - January 23, 2012 reply

Once again, I find myself in agreement with d_c_guy.

I would also note that nobody has seen Flores play without injury in the MLB. I think that Flores is in a good position for a break out year. If he repeats 2011, there are still worse options for a back-up catcher. If he breaks out, then we will likely deal him for something more valuable than a single season of Upton.

chubias - January 23, 2012 reply

Fixed

nobody has seen Flores play up to his pre-injury performance.

jbg2772 - January 23, 2012 reply

Put it in my account; I'll probably need it later for some fool opinion or other :-)

That, and getting fair value for him would be nearly impossible

Right now he’s a guy who hasn’t proven he’s recovered from injury. His stats last year were underwhelming, and his winter league heroics are encouraging but not definitive. Face it, Flores + Lombardozzi aren’t going to be enough to get Upton.

He’s more valuable to the Nationals (Ramos insurance) right now than he is to anyone else. I’m not a big believer that Solano is anything more than a younger Wil Nieves.

Flores!!!!!

Just Flores!!!!!

Ok MRS. Flores

Rizzo is right; at this moment the potential trade doesn't make sense for anyone

The Rays aren’t going to give Upton away, because they’re planning to contend this year. The Nationals aren’t going to break the bank to get Upton, because he’s the “other” Upton (i.e. he’s good, but not great), he’s somewhat expensive and about to get a LOT more expensive even if you retain him. The Nationals are more willing to pay that future freight than the Rays will be (Upton is almost certainly gone from Tampa after this year) but any move of Upton has got to make the Rays a better team for it to make sense.

So the Rays would be happy to take Espinosa for Upton, but the Nationals aren’t willing to do that. The Nationals probably wouldn’t even be willing to offer Desmond straight up for Upton; Upton is clearly a better player, but it’s one year of Upton vs. four years of Desmond, and Desmond still has some upside potential. The fact that the Rays probably wouldn’t take an offer (Desmond for Upton) that the Nationals probably aren’t even willing to make tells me that there is no deal here … right now.

It’s too soon; if the Rays fall out of contention then they will be more likely to move Upton. After a few months of 2012 the Nationals will have a better idea of how close Brown, Perez, Goodwin (and possibly Komatsu if he doesn’t make the Cardinals roster) are to being ready, and how bad either Werth or a possible Bernadina/Cameron platoon is working out in CF, and whether Lombardozzi or Rendon seems ready to step in for Desmond or Espinosa (depending on how THEIR seasons develop).

Still nice to read about something other than the PF Flyer though :-)

BTW – what time does Fielder’s plane land tonight?

Its not going to get done..........

Because Upton won’t sign an extension………

As DC has said, we’ll get another year to see how close BERNIE, LOMBO and Rendon (a guy who’s has’nt played one game yet) are to positive contributions in 2013.

There are so many more options next year in free agency at centerfield..

…that’s the way to go. I may be alone but I’m ok with Werth at centerfield.

Berndaddy - January 23, 2012 reply

+1

Nailed it.

+BHIRF

... by May, not before

I’m still in the “let’s not give up his 26yo season for one month of his 19yo season” camp. Of course, first he has to show that he’s ready to really make this an issue :-)

I think he has been ready to make that an issue and always has been.

+BHIRFBMNB!!!

I agree

Werth will be ok in centerfield. No need to rush into anything. Who knows what next year will bring.

Danyon Rome - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

Im with you.

gato6489 - January 23, 2012 reply

I am just not sold on any trade for BJ

I would go with Rizzo’s plan of Werth then a free agent next year. Teams are built over time.

Alex35332 - January 23, 2012 reply

Desmond for Upton

Straight up is great if he will resign for several reasons
1. fills cf hole
2. lets the NATS not sign PF
3. outfield of werth upton harper
4. Morse back at first
5. free up money for extending younger players (ZIM) in the near future
6. Rendon will be on the MLB roster in 2013 and needs to play somewere

who is SS next year?

Alex35332 - January 23, 2012 reply

Espinsa and at 2nd Delarosa or lubardozi

I like Desmond but his future is a utility player on this team

Sorry, but I do not agree….I have sat in Nats Park and RFK for several years now, and was finally happy to see a nice, defensive MI this past season….one that surely gets even better in 2012. Offensively, I have more faith in Dez than Del and Lombo combined. I think it is a huge mistake to trade either Dez or Espi this season, without a proven player who can come in and make an immediate impact on this team…..trading either one to fill a small need in CF, creates a much larger hole in the MI.

were is Rendon going to play this Sep. and beyond???

This September? Potomac? Maybe Harrisburg? I doubt DC will see Rendon prior to September 2013.

Why?

Not saying he a lock, but there is certainly precedent for him to be up in 2012

Like Zimmerman?

and Rendon was a better college hitter. Though not the defensive wizard that Zimm is and was.

The kid has never played a MiLB game….no one knows what he will do professionally. I would guess he starts the season no higher than Potomac, and I would be shocked if he played in DC in 2012. I think June 2013 is the absolute earliest that we see him in DC. I hope I’m wrong….I’d love to see him burn it up in the minors to accelerate his DC appearance.

Odds are you’re correct, but it would hardly be shocking

Zimm started in Harrisburg, Rendon was a better college player and higher draft pick.

Was Zim coming off of a sore shoulder?

Wasn't Ryan the 4th pick?

DC20 - January 23, 2012 reply

My mistake, rendon was still the 2nd best amateur hitter in several years, behind Harper.

Don't necessarily disagree, some caveats

1) Rays might not want to do a straight-up trade. Even though Desmond is cheaper and under team control for longer, they probably think they can trade a proven starter for proven starter, not proven starter for…Desmond.

2) If BJ leaves after next year, it’s just not worth it. The Nats aren’t winning the WS next year (though they might have a chance if they get both BJ AND Fielder). Gotta think long term. If they are sure on someone in the system coming in 2013, then it might be worth it.

3) If BJ doesn’t leave, that’s a lot of money tied up in someone that doesn’t solve the leadoff situation (he can leadoff but with low obp). Probably worth it if Fielder doesn’t sign and Morse plays first. If Fielder does sign, I don’t think the Nats can take on that much salary and still keep everyone they need to.

But I agree Desmond isn’t the answer.

I would rather see a Dez/Espi combo in the MI and our current situation in CF, than see Upton in CF with the major hole it’s gonna create in the MI if we trade either Dez or Espi to get him. I think Nats fans very much undervalue Desmond, much the same way they undervalued Morse this time last season.

according to baseball-reference...

Desmond had the 16th worst .obp in the entire league last year. 4th worst among SS. He had the 12th worst .ops in the league last year. 5th worst among SS. And as far as I could tell (they don’t hide non-qualifiers for these), he was tied 27th for the least amount of walks and 20th in the league in strikeouts.

Take a second and think about how bad that is. He’s in the bottom 30 in the league for obp, ops, so, and bb.

Oh, and btw, he’s 41st in the league in babip, meaning he got really, really lucky. His avg, obp, and ops should have all been lower than they were.

Agree

Long term Desmond is utility player Rendon and Espinosa are both better all around player and Lumbardozi might be also

according to ESPN

Funny…..his OBP was better than Carl Crawford! His OPS was better than Ichiro! Funny how stats all work, and even funnier how math geeks think that stats are all that matters in baseball. Stats can tell any story you want them to tell. The second half of 2011, Desmond was in the top 10 among all SS (with at least 175 PA) in Average, OBP, SLG, OPS, and Doubles. He was also 5th in total bases and extra base hits among SS during the second half. I would like to see him improve in the number of pitches per plate appearance, and improvement in his SO/Walk ratio and walks per PA, but I’d say he is maturing quite well.

In that case...

Carl Crawford sucked at getting on base. Ichiro had no power. Doesn’t mean Desmond is good.

Desmond also had a monstrously high babip in the 2nd half – something like .360, right? League average was .295. Not to mention that when he did put up a .300 avg, he only had a .330 obp to go along with it.

Stats will vary wildly, yes. babip will giveth and taketh away. It will affect all those stats. But one thing you can’t fake is bottom 30 in the league in both strikeouts and walks. Yes, he can improve and get better. But that would mean he has to improve and get better, it does not mean he did well last year.

You know who else was in the bottom 20 in SO and BB?

Michael Morse.

I don’t see a lot of folks around here clamoring to trade him off though.

RobBobS - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

sign Fielder, and they’ll have to start…

interesting...

Though his ratio was closer to 3/1 than 4/1. And his LD% was 6% higher, which suggests a more sustainable babip. But .344 is still high…

Despite the so’s and bb’s, Morse got on base 60 points higher than Desmond. That’s a ton. And he has more power.

Pretty much, if you want to boil my argument down into a nutshell, it’s that Desmond’s obp is horrendous, he does NOT have the walk ability to raise it or the power to justify it, and when he hit really well for half a year, it corresponded with an unusually high babip that non-power hitters like Desmond typically don’t sustain. He’s not going to see another last-year’s-2nd-half without improving plate discipline, because .360-ish babips don’t happen to slappy SS’s. He can make it, sure, but he would have to improve.

You win…..lets’ bring Guzman back.

now, now, let’s not get all hissy…I said below he’s the starter until someone better comes along. I just don’t think he’ll ever be “good”

I was joking…..sarcasm. I don’t see a better alternative to Desmond within the organization, or available outside of the organization. I will bank on him being as solid next season, as I thought Morse was going to be last season, when everyone was hating on Michael.

Though his ratio was closer to 3/1 than 4/1

Actually, it was EXACTLY 3.5/1.

RobBobS - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

pshhhhh

gesundheit

Selective stats

He was 5th out of 9 qualified SS in OPS in 2011. Not great, but remember SS is a defensive position (with the exception of a couple of huge stars), and the comparisons should reflect that. Furthermore, in the second half he put up a very respectable 740+ OPS. If he can do that consistently then he will be a well-above-average SS. The Nats were apparently all too quick to give up on Bonafacio. Let’s hope they don’t make the same mistake with Desmond.

RobBobS - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

You make one point, which is...

I didn’t count the amount of qualified SS. I just assumed 5th was bad.

But I still don’t see him as a good starter because:
1) His babip was just really, really high, especially in the 2nd half. He’s not pujols. He’s not sustaining such a high babip. So I’m wary of all those 2nd half numbers.
2) How many of those SS were bottom 30 in the league in both so AND walks? 4-1 ratio is just incredibly bad. Those tend not to improve all that much, and will really hamper him.
3) The Nats have someone else who can play SS (Espinosa) and hit a ton better. While Espinosa’s avg was low, he still put a better obp AND slug than Desmond, and that’s with a babip that was 27 points lower. Don’t get me wrong, I love defense and love that the Nats have a SS at 2B, but it should NOT come at a loss to the offensive upgrade they can have by putting in a different 2B to replace Desmond (hopefully Rendon).

I agree with one point….when/if Rendon proves himself, and finally appears in DC in mid-late 2013, lets’ revisit that argument.

Don't get me wrong...

I don’t like Desmond as a starter, but if Lombo doesn’t wow us in Spring Training, he’s definitely the starter next year.

addendum

Though I’d trade him for the “right” piece.

Desi's second half BABIP was .350

It was a bit high and luck probably bought him a few hits. But BABIP is a very poorly understood statistic. Just because the league average is such and such doesn’t mean anyone above or below that average was lucky/unlucky.

I’m sorry, but I have yet to see convincing evidence that Espinosa can hit “a ton better”. There are major concerns with Espi: he has HUGE holes in his swing that were apparently very easy to exploit. He struck out a ton, too. His stats at this point in his career are very close to Desmond’s at the same point in his career. Desmond, however, ended his season on a big upnote; Espi ended his on a big downer. In the end, I don’t see why so many here are willing to just hand the keys to SS to Espi, seemingly based on a half season of productivity, but are just itching to dump Desmond, mainly because of his poor half-season.

RobBobS - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

well I can't speak for others, but here's why I prefer Espinosa, at this point at least

1) Higher obp than Desmond ever achieved, and higher slug than Desmond ever achieved except for the 21 game year, and more hr than Desmond ever achieved.
2) He achieved that higher obp and slug with a lower babip. You’re right that it’s not all due to luck, but I would assume it correlates pretty nicely to power and LD%. They both had the same LD% last year and Espinosa had more power.
3) Desmond’s huge upswing correlated with a huge babip, can’t say the same for Espinosa’s first half. And even with he was hitting .300, his obp was only .330.
4) 3/1 so/bb ratio v. 4/1.

Actually,

BABIP correlates pretty poorly with both LD% and with power (among all players). I thought the same thing, and got a very poor fit using those quantities. The only thing that it seemed to correlate well with was BA, a fact which both makes sense and adds almost nothing to the discussion.

Fun fact: Tony Gwynn had a career BABIP of .341, not much power, and for most of his career only an average LD%.

Stop trading Desmond!

Stop not signing Fielder!

AlexMeyer17:
Just got off the phone with Anthony Rendon. He says he can’t wait to get going at spring training. Gonna be here soon. #GoNats!

Ball hock on twitter said

Prince has signed with the nats just taking it as a rumor as of now but it does back up swamp tweet

Just waiting to finish the Zimm extension to announce it.

Now jay robiskie has just tweeted that prince with nats deal will wrap up tonight or tomorrow

Robiskie although never heard of him has many credible sources who follow him

I like what he says.. but too good to be true.

Must be false.

He also says the zimmerman extension will also take place the same day

God must really not like Baltimore

I believe that was already understood.

RobBobS - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

the account has already been shut down

This is pretty entertaining to say the least.

DC20 - January 23, 2012 reply

Deion Sanders just tweeted that the it’s not "Robiskie"’ it’s “Robinskie”

And the bandwagon will roll in a couple hours

http://www.theonion.com/articles/prince-fielder-catching-on-to-fact-that-teams-take,27111/

Prince Fielder Catching On To Fact That Teams Take Free Agents Out To Dinner A Lot

It all makes sense now!

brs03 - January 23, 2012 reply

haha.. brilliant reporting :)

Another!

@BallHock
BallHock
BREAKING. Prince Fielder in agreement with the Washington Nationals. I repeat, the Prince will be in DC for the long haul

AND he says he reports more truth than rumors in his bio! He must be telling the truth! So now we got…

A guy who’s usually wrong and just posts rumors, then insists he got it first when one of them turns out to be true.
Another guy who, despite having “sources” in the mlb and nhl, only has 60 followers.
And another guy who disabled his account one hour after posting.

These look like good odds to me!

+1. I won’t believe it till Patrick posts it! lol

I won’t believe it until Rizzo, Boras and Fielder confirm it.

Exactly…..and I have faith that Patrick won’t post it until they do.

Red Sox Signed Cody Ross

According to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (from MLB TR)
Another CF taken.

HG_VA - January 23, 2012 reply

Prince in dc bowling our source has a pic

Did He Bowl His Weight?

275 would be a pretty good score!

Jordven Strasermann - January 23, 2012 reply

Impossible...

No way he bowled 325…unless he’s Amish.

rec'd!

TJL - January 24, 2012 reply

link? which lanes?

our friend from last night broke the news...

MLBlnsideNews Scott Swaim
PRINCE FIELDER SPOTTED TONIGHT at Lucky Strike lanes in the Penn Quarter section of Washington D.C., celebrating. twitpic.com/8az5sa

Our new BFF

I wonder how much work it would take to work up that much credibility and following

without doing any real work.

I don't spend much time in Chinatown other than at Caps games,

but if someone else can confirm that this picture is indeed lucky strike them I will be much gladdened.

I’ve been in there before, and it doesn’t look like it to me. If I get downtown tomorrow, I will stop in and take another look.

Look at the Photos on

Lucky strike DC Web Site

HG_VA - January 23, 2012 reply

Maybe it is after all. I don’t see him wearing a curly W hat or jersey though! lol

If it’s not (and I don’t really believe that source would get it right at this point), that’s a commendable level of trolling for the sake of a fake rumor. But that wouldn’t surprise me at all.

brs03 - January 23, 2012 reply

That Twitpic is already taken down

But he is now throwing out figures at least. Says 165-170 for PF. No mention of years.

DC20 - January 23, 2012 reply

It is actually from a brewers event in 2011

yup

on this web site

HG_VA - January 23, 2012 reply

LOL – Nice Job HG! This is why I love this site so much…..can’t get much over on this crew!

Oooops…..you to Benson!

Just went out to dinner and followed this all through phone...

You guys bringing this stuff up and shooting it down has been hilarious. Good stuff all around.

Dezi

Can we get off the “Hate Desi Train” until May. I have faith that D Johnson will let him know he is the leadoff hitter and get his head focused on that role for 2012. last year it was a mess trying to figure out who was going to take the role. Desi is a leader for this team. He may not play like jeter yet but he is going to be the team leader in the next few years, which is why they are not letting him go. He plays a good SS that will continue to improve and he will be better at the plate this year.
I would say the same for Lannan as well. JZim, Gio, SS, Lannan, Wang is an incredible set up considering where we have been the last few years. Have a #4 with a sub 4 ERA. Detweiler will get his chance because Wang wont have the stamina for the entire year and SS is on a limit.

habs1000 - January 23, 2012 reply

THIS.

Also, while we’re at it, can we stop trading Morse?

ricksnats - January 24, 2012 reply

getting back to credible sources..

washingnats:
#Nats in running for #Prince, but race far from over tinyurl.com/7xbrqfu #MLB

Says Nats want five or six years, Fielder is looking closer to ten. Thank you, Ladson, for helping us find our way around this forest of rumors. We go forward now knowing.. well, nothing more, really, except that we now have the same assumption that the negotiations are going nowhere that we always had.

Wait a second.

I’m throwin’ the flag on that one.

Ladson is a “credible source” now???

hehe.. I figured after the past 24 hrs he must look quite credible by comparison

back to non-credible sources :)

MLBlnsideNews Scott Swaim
Any minute. Put on MASN now! RT @NatsHR2Win @MLBlnsideNews When do you anticipate the trade will be announced for Prince Fielder?

Trade?

Flores for Fielder straight up?

The Herndon Kid - January 23, 2012 via mobile reply

he's deleted that post

I think that...

THIS just about says it all.

I salute him too :)

epic job so far

Stop! Holding that finger up is no salute.

Poor guy.

I SO want him to be right about this one…

Something went wrong there.

perhaps - he might be being "sarcastic"

It seems pretty likely to me this guy posts rumors as truths, then claims he’s the first to break them. No one remembers false rumors after the dust has settled. If he’s wrong he might claim he was trolling, or say nothing, or whatever.

Bleacher Report to the rescue!

Why the Nationals Haven’t Pulled The Trigger on Prince Fielder Deal (explained in a resplendent and in-depth slideshow)

Except for the part about "they already have a first baseman"

with the picture of Adam LaRoche.

NEWS FLASH............

JZIMM will be a better pitcher then NAT GIO the next 4 years……………..

DEZ is fine...............

If he is hiting 8th……………The problem is, he is going to hit 1 or 2…………

As for the stats………Think of DEZ as PORN……….You know it when you see it………

“Desmond is a horrible baseball player”

You keep saying that, I don't think it means what you think it means.

Patrick Reddington - January 24, 2012 reply

Hey, we agree on something!

I like Desmond, AND I like porn!

ricksnats - January 24, 2012 reply

That's ... just great Ricks

Thanks for sharing lol

d_c_guy - January 24, 2012 reply

How else would we have known? After all, SB Nations neglects to provide a category for that in the “a fan of”/profile area.

PerryMason - January 24, 2012 reply

Profile image is a candidate, of course.....

although not a particularly tasteful one!

ricksnats - January 24, 2012 reply

You can always write the SB Nation at support@SBNat...wait? What are you talking about adding?

#nomoarpournjokes

That's not what the internet is for!

d_c_guy - January 24, 2012 reply

The posts about Prince at Lucky Strike and the =) in re: trolling are fake

Both were by a copycat @mlbInsidenews – notice the upper-case I. He actually has some funny posts.

Though I think the ship has sailed on the “real” guy being right.