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The Washington Nationals, Ryan Zimmerman And The Return Of The "Extend-Zim" Chatter.

WASHINGTON, DC - AUGUST 19:  Ryan Zimmerman #11 of the Washington Nationals hits a game-winning grand slam in the ninth inning against the Philadelphia Phillies at Nationals Park on August 19, 2011 in Washington, DC. The Nationals won the game 8-4.  (Photo by Greg Fiume/Getty Images)

Greg Fiume - Getty Images

9 months ago: WASHINGTON, DC - AUGUST 19: Ryan Zimmerman #11 of the Washington Nationals hits a game-winning grand slam in the ninth inning against the Philadelphia Phillies at Nationals Park on August 19, 2011 in Washington, DC. The Nationals won the game 8-4. (Photo by Greg Fiume/Getty Images)

The "Extend Ryan Zimmerman Movement" (hashtag #extendZim*) made its way onto the pages of Yahoo!Sports.com's Big League Stew, with Kevin Kaduk (aka 'Duk) discussing the conversation that's come up once again after the Washington Nationals announced what is reportedly a 5-year/$42 million dollar extension with newly-acquired left-hander Gio Gonzalez on Sunday afternoon. Zimmerman, the Nats' 3rd baseman and first 1st Round pick, is heading into the next-to-last year of the 5-year/$45 million dollar extension the then-24-year-old signed in April 2009. The '05 1st Round pick, taken with the 4th overall selection in the franchise's first draft following their relocation from Montreal, was coming off a .283/.333/.442 2008 season in which the 4th-year pro had 24 doubles and 14 HR's in 106 games and 466 plate appearances and was in the midst of what would end up being a 30-game hit streak when he signed the five-year extension in early '09. Zimmerman had missed 48 games in '08 recovering from a small labrum tear in his left shoulder...

Star-divide

Nats' GM Mike Rizzo, who'd taken over for Jim Bowden just weeks earlier, referred to Zimmerman as the face of the franchise before the deal was officially announced back in 2009, telling MLB.com's Bill Ladson in an article entitled, "Nats, Zimmerman agree to extension", that the third baseman, "... is a vital part of the franchise, both as the face of the franchise and one of its star players." After hitting for a combined .299/.375/.518 line in 2009-10 with 69 doubles and 58 HR's in 299 games and 1,296 PA's, winning a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger award in '09 and Silver Slugger in 2010 in seasons he finished at +7.3 and +7.2 fWAR, respectively, Zimmerman was asked about signing an extension during the beginning of Spring Training in 2011.

Zimmerman said at the time, as quoted by Washington Post writer Adam Kilgore in an article entitled, "Ryan Zimmerman wants to keep calling Washington home, but the Nationals will have to make it happen", that he would like to sign on long-term in D.C., provided he thought the team was headed in the right direction, which he did, sooner than others thought he explained, and provided an extension happened before he headed into the final year of his current contract in 2013. "If you get to two years left [before] free agency, you can talk," the bland-by-design 26-year-old infielder told reporters, "'But if nothing works out, if you have one year before free agency, you might as well play your year out and see what happens.'"

Thus the urgency on the part of Nationals fans to see a deal done before the 2012 season starts, since Zimmerman has previously expressed a desire to avoid negotiating during the season. In mid-November 2011, D.C. GM Mike Rizzo told reporters that the team had already, "... initiated talks about a contract extension," as FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal wrote in an 11/16/11 article in which he quoted the Nats' general manager saying, "'It’s important to us. We’ve already begun preliminary discussions with his people. He’s an important piece for us, a guy that we would like to have here long-term.'"

As Yahoo!Sports.com's 'Duk noted this afternoon, however, the torn abdominal muscle Zimmerman suffered last season, which eventually required surgery and limited the seven-year veteran to 101 games and 404 plate appearances, "... has complicated things a bit,":

"That injury was just bad medical luck, but I'm guessing the injury delayed Zimmerman's dreams of landing a Troy Tulowitzki- or Ryan Braun-type contract this early in the process (especially when there were/are other trophies to be bagged)."

Tulowitzki, the Rockies' shortstop, and the 7th overall pick in the '05 Draft, was 26, in the third year of a 6-year/$31 million dollar extension and coming off a .315/.381/.568 Gold Glove and Silver Slugger-worthy 2010 season in which he'd hit 32 doubles and 27 HR's in 122 games and 529 plate appearances and was worth +6.5 fWAR when he signed an extension of his extension which left the shortstop with a 10-year/$157.75 million dollar deal that will keep him Colorado through 2020. Braun, the 5th overall pick in '05 by the Brewers, was 27 and in the fourth year of an 8-year/$45 million dollar deal when he and Milwaukee agreed last April on a 5-year/$105 million dollar extension which covers the 2016-2020 seasons with an option for 2021. Braun was coming off a .304/.365/.501 2010 campain in which he hit 45 doubles and 25 HR's and finished the year at +4.4 fWAR.

Zimmerman finished the 2011 season at +2.5 fWAR, with a .289/.355/.479 line, 21 doubles and 12 HR's in 101 games and 440 plate appearances, numbers in line with career norms had he played a full season, but he once again missed time with an injury and endured some questions/criticism for the aesthetic damage he did as he worked out some issues with revamped throwing mechanics he believed would benefit him as a professional with plans for a long career at third base. In the end, Yahoo!Sports.com's 'Duk wonders if Zimmerman might not be better off waiting to see how some of the other rumored moves this winter work out.

"[Zimmerman's] leverage could really be bolstered if Fielder decides to sign elsewhere," 'Duk writes, referring to the rumors which have Prince Fielder considering D.C., "and GM Mike Rizzo catches a glance of the upcoming free agent fields, which are relatively thin on star power." Or Zimmerman's leverage could be bolstered if the Nats do sign Fielder (though much like the current Fielder vs Josh Hamilton chatter, some wonder whether the Rangers/Nationals can afford both players) and Zimmerman has another two years like his 2009 and '10 campaigns, aka the last time he was hitting in front of a big middle of the order bat. The Nats might want to lock Zimmerman up long-term before he prices himself out of D.C. with a full-year hitting in the lineup Washington would have with Fielder's bat in the nation's capital. (ed. note - "Zimmerman will, of course get paid for what he's done his whole career, not just for the last season, but the idea of 'leverage' is what's being discussed here.")

The player wants to sign and stay in one place, at third in Nationals Park as long as possible. The Nationals, publicly, through their GM, have said they too are interested in getting an extension done. Nats' skipper Davey Johnson, after watching Zimmerman hit a walk-off grand slam to beat the Phillies on August 19th pretty much summed up how all of NatsTown thinks of the face of the Nats' franchise. "'He's one of those great players that's totally in control in those tough situations," Johnson said, "He's very calm. The rest of us get a little excited, but he doesn't." Zim's clutch. Though we all know "clutch" doesn't really exist. #extendZim.

• LINKS: Can/Will/Should the Nationals make the Mr. National a National for life?:

• "Well, if they wind up signing Fielder for $150 million-plus, the prospects of keeping Zimmerman in D.C. diminish by a significant amount..." - "Addressing the Fielder rumors" - Mark Zuckerman, NatsInsider.com

• "The Nationals, if they’re inclined, do not have to choose between Ryan Zimmerman and Prince Fielder." - "For the Nationals, Prince Fielder or Ryan Zimmerman is only a choice if they make it one" - Adam Kilgore, Nationals Journal - The Washington Post

• "But what about that other guy, Ryan Zimmerman? Where does the (former?) Face of the Franchise fit in in Mike Rizzo's Phase 2?" - "What about Zim?" - Nats Enquirer

• (ed. note - " * = this hashtag isn't really out there.")

0 recs  |  71 comments

Comments

#extendZim
Yeah...#ExtendZim!

They can’t lose The FOF.

Yes!!!...................#ExtendZim!!!

and if there are Lerner bucks leftover, off a Dunn deal to Fielder….(2 years, $20mil)

Boras laughs and SNEERS at your leetle offer

for his Round Prince.

Heh.

Zim's a big reason why I love this team...

Extend Zim Rizzo or face a revolt. I’m polishing up my pitchfork.

I’d love to see Zim extended but I can certainly understand the worries over injuries since he’s the Mike Green of the Nationals (or is Mike Green the Zimmerman of the Capitals?).

Hope Green’s throwing mechanics don’t get screwed up by this abdominal surgery. Wait…

Ryan Zimmerman rides a Vespa scooter? Wait, now I'm really confused...
No, Mike Green = Nick Johnson

Key offensive performer, solid defender, check. Fluke injuries, check. Takes longer than expected to recover, check.

How long of a deal?

Is Zimm looking for a shorter deal like 3-5 years or something more like a 8-10 year thing?

No word terms being discussed...

Lot of speculation about what he could get of course, but that’s all…

RZimm's value for an extension is probably in the $15-$18M/yr range

I think if Rizzo has a couple of sit-downs with Ryan & his agent this spring, they’ll get a deal roughed out & get it signed sometime between OD and the All-Star break. Length of contract TBD.

I’d love to see Zimm go through this whole season without a long stint on the DL. If he can do that, I figure Rizzo’d extend him.

Being the contrarian of the group

I would just like to offer the notion that the more the fan base clamors for an extension of Zimm just because he’s the “face of the franchise”, the more Zimm’s people will demand in negotiations, which will lead, perversely, to a diminished chance that they will extend him. Furthermore, I would like to suggest that Zimm was given the moniker “FoF” back in the days when he was really the only player on the team worth a damn. The new-look Nats could potentially feature five players in 2012 that could put up 5-WAR seasons, so Zimm is hardly alone any longer.

ZIMM - the OFoF

A ture Original

Zimm - Face Ofof the Franchise
Based on this comment, you are retracting you comments re: sign Fielder?
Not at all.

But I will assert that the days of “sign him, he’s all we’ve got” are over. This allows the Nats to take a less-emotionally charged argument and to discuss on rational terms what exactly he’s worth.

So you're going to "Sign him if the price isn't completely unreasonable?"

I’m in the “Sign him if the price is actually reasonable”

I don't know that any has endorsed a "sign him, he's all we've got" stance.

I think there is plenty of room for emotion on both sides of the table. No other fandom will love Zim like we do. I mean he’s a friggen picture book story: local kid, first 1 number pick for a “new” team, bats 3rd. His charitable efforts to raise money to fight MS are important to those of us in that community, though wholly unrelated to baseball. That being said I don’t think anyone has volunteered 10 years/ $300 million kind of crazy.

No, nobody's mentioned those kind of numbers,

including (I’m sure) Zimmerman’s own people. My point is that management should not feel cornered into ‘pay him whatever it takes’ because he’s such a fan favorite.

“Local kid”? Really? It takes me four hours to drive to Virginia Beach, which is more or less his hometown as far as I know.

For purposes of determining "local" for sports fandom, I would say that counts as local.
It's more the UVA thing, there is a huge network of UVA grads in Northern Virginia,

and several of them have a lot of money. From Ryan’s side, he came here straight from college, Arlington is his home now, and he has never lived outside of Virginia.

I don't blame either party for having reasons to hesitate approaching an extension right now

The Nationals are understandably hesitant to commit major cash/years to a player that has had trouble staying on the field two of the last four seasons. And Zimmerman is understandably reluctant to sign a major deal coming off one of his less productive years.

Two more:

@NationalsPR: #Nationals agree to terms w/ RHP Jordan Zimmermann & LHP Tom Gorzelanny on 2012 contracts, thus avoiding salary arbitration.

MarkZuckerman:
BTW, Gio’s deal: $3.25M in ’12, $6.25M in ’13, $8.5M in ’14, $11M in ’15, $12M in ’16, $12M options in ’17 + ’18, $500K bonus, $500K buyout.

ExtendZim

The Nationals have to keep Zimmerman in a Nationals jersey. Teach Rendon how to play second, move espinosa to short (his natural position). Even without Fielder (replace him with a serviceable first baseman) this would be one of the best infields in the league, both offensively and defensively.

What are you doing with Desmond then?

(I hate to ask).

Teach him to play CF?

Although if we’re going to pick one, let’s wait until Rendin actually shows us something un the minors and Espi’s had another turn through the league. We might rank them differently this time next year.

while we're at it, how about giving Desmond a season batting in the same lineup order

with an unchanging role under a single manager and see how he does….

I do agree with that

having a manager who was a successful middle infielder during his playing days can only help Desmond and Espinosa develop. At least Desmond’s defense was better last year.

I hadn't thought of Davey being an influence that way, but of course...
Well

That is just a projection, although he is under team control until 2016. I hope he rebounds this year he was awful in 11

Desmond is gone.............

Jeez…………

Zimmerman

Is he the odd man out then?

ZIMM?

“Desmond is a horrible baseball player”………..

Zimm is going to have to finish the 2012 season without a long DL stint AND-AND Hit 25 diggers…………then he’ll get his 20mil deal………..

Desmond is far from a horrible baseball player.

I think he’ll earn the leadoff spot this season, though he may be destined to be a very very good utility player in 2013 to make room for Rendon. Of course if Espinosa’s power the first half of last season was a fluke then he may end up as the utility player.

Needless to say

The jury is still out.
Desmond (and Espinoza) have a way(s) to go, but to call either “horrible” at this point in their career is “Atristforkian”.

"Needless to say"..................

But…………………maybe……………………needs to be said after all……………………

Since some people………………………..(I’m not naming names)………………seem to have reached a conclusion…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

To be real

Zimmerman is a full two years away from Free Agency (2014). So why sign it with two years left on a contract of a injury riddled player. Long-term contracts are incredibly risky, and the overwhelmingly long-term contracts do not pan out in favor of a club. So why sign him now, you are basically just drastically increasing the risk for the club.

With all that said you should think they would want to resign him, but if he wants (lets say) 7 years, thats really a 9 year contract from today. NINE YEARS! How did that turn out for Mauer in Minnesota? Mark Teixiera has even been failing to live up to his contract. Manny Ramirez wasn’t worth his contract.

It's so rare when a player actually earns his long term contract that I tend to remember those as the outliers

I can think of two right away, though: Jeter’s first big contract (10 years) and Mike Mussina, both for the Yankees. Of course, the Yankees have had their share of true stinkers, too.

A friend of mine did an analysis for an MLB team while he was getting his MBA at Haas

And he found that contracts of 3 years or more only very rarely work out. The extreme majority of these contracts don’t work out.

with that said

Zimmerman is an exceptional player because his ability to be an +WAR offensively and defensively at a premium position.

And for whatever reason

everyone talks about moving Zimmerman OFF of 3rd base. he has a gold glove. I know his throwing wasn’t great but it has improved drastically (though ugly). his UZR rating since 2008 is 3rd amongst all 3rd baseman and probably would be fighting for the top billing if not for his injury mangled 2011.

Tops in NL mind you
Longoria and who in the AL?
The Gold Glove winner - Adrian Beltre
The reason you sign him now, is so that you can afford him later. See e.g., Evan Longoria.

Esstentially, the Nationals will get a discount on free agent prices of Zimmerman, by asorbing the liabilty that he might not produce or will be injured. Yes, there is risk. Any player could be injured. Mauer had been in great health before the 2011. So, unless you want the Nationals to just stop signing top tier talent on focus only on the draft, then I don’t understand your point.

The point is you can look at a number of players

Yes, Longoria worked out. Thats an exception to the rule. Imagine if the Rangers had signed Hank Blalock to a long-term contract.

Remember the Orioles and Albert Belle!
And look at how terrible Sabathia, Jeter, and Pujols all did.

Boy are we lucky that we dodged those bullets!

Obviously, there are bad contracts in baseball. There are careers that are cut short by injury. However, unless the Nationals are going to adopt the Tampa Bay model and never sign prime free agents, you should get used to the idea that each signing brings a risk.

Tampa Bay has done it once successfully.

Matt Moore is TBD. And you throw out potentially 3 HOF’s as examples.

I wasn't talking about Tampa Bay's extension.

I was more focuesed on the fact that few players stay with the team for more than 4 or 5 years, because they get traded early in arbitration.

And yes, I think Ryan Zimmerman has HOF potential.

I am not saying that we should offer Pujols money to Zimm. However, the longer we wait, the more expensive Zimm will become, and the more likely we won’t be able to sign him (or that we will sign him for too much).

ZIMM...........

Should have been extended a year ago…………Of course then he misses 40 games in 2011……….

Resigning ZIMM is a another major reason to Limit any PRINCE deal, length wise…………….

HOF.........

He’s really going to have to pick up the pace. 08 and 11 and you figure one more season is really goin gto hurt him………..

It would also help if he became a “perenial” gold glover……….

This is Zimmerman's age-27 season, and he's playing on the best team he ever has.

Look for something big in 2012.

Yea, he needs to put up a really big year this year to get back to being the player we have always expected him to be.

Of course if he stays healthy I have no doubt he can do it.

If he stays healthy and the Nats are successful, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Zimmerman has the chops to be an MVP.

And you can only afford him later

if he produces and continues to be a top MLB player. any lost contract is not affordable.

So, you are generally opposed to offering competitive contracts, then?
I am saying there shouldn't be a hurry to lock this guy in for 8-10 years

he has two years left on his current contract and we don’t know what he is asking for in terms of salary or years.

I am not in favor of 7-10 year contracts. 6 is alot, but its through Zimm’s prime.

I mean the guy will be 28 at the end of this contract

we ready to sign him through age 36?

Depending on the cost, absolutely. If we can sign him for an AAV of $15, then I would.

Besides an extentsion could void his current contract if the sides agreed to do that.

You talk now

because Zimmerman has stated (cited in Patrick’s post) that, if you get to the off-season before your last year of the contract, you may as well wait and see what the market has to offer. Sign an extension now = bidding against yourself. Wait = bidding against the field.

Breaking News - Victor Martinez Injured

Hurt knee working out. Lost for 2012.

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