Are the Washington Nationals turning their attention to free agent second baseman Adam Kennedy because they've decided Orlando Hudson won't budge from his reported demands for somewhere around $9M per, or is DC GM Mike Rizzo attempting to force Hudson's hand by expressing interest in another option? The questions that the Nationals, or any other team with interest in acquiring Orlando Hudson, have to be asking themselves were summed up in several articles recently, including one the other day by MLB.com's Bill Ladson entitled, "Nationals have interest in Kennedy", where Mr. Ladson mentions Hudson's contract demands, his injury history and his '09 season with the Los Angeles Dodgers, which ended with Hudson on the bench as Ronnie Belliard arrived in a trade from DC and replaced Hudson as the Dodgers' starting second baseman as LA charged into the postseason.
I figured the easiest way to get some answers to these questions would be to ask a Dodgers fan, so I shot an email over to the SB Nation's LA Dodgers site, True Blue LA, asking site manager Eric Stephen if he would be willing to share his opinion on the following subjects:
• Why LA skipper Joe Torre went with Ronnie Belliard over Hudson late last season?
• If there were any lingering signs of Hudson's wrist issues?
• If Hudson is worth anything more than a 1-year deal?
• Check out True Blue LA's Eric Stephen's responses after the JUMP...
Federal Baseball (FB): Why did LA skipper Joe Torre decide to go with Ronnie Belliard over Hudson late last season?
True Blue LA: The decision to bench Hudson for Belliard was perplexing at the time, and quite shocking. It essentially boiled down to Belliard having a hot hand and Torre sticking to it. I had the opportunity to cover some games in 2009, and by the end of September, Joe Torre bristled at some of the continued questioning. Here is what I wrote on September 20:"Orlando Hudson is sitting today, for the eighth time in 19 games since the arrival of Ronnie Belliard. Torre said he is getting Hudson rest, the rest he didn't get earlier in the season. Hudson started the season with the club, which was not expected, and he was playing so well that he didn't get a day off until game number 55. Torre wouldn't say whether or not Hudson was injured, noting "you can't get him to admit anything" anyway, and that the season was simply taking its toll on the O-Dog. When asked whether or not Hudson was the starting second baseman going forward, Torre bristled, saying "He's not starting today."
It was assumed that Torre had actually discussed this with Hudson, but it came out after the season that Hudson was miffed that Torre basically never sat him down to tell him of his benching.
FB: Were there any lingering signs of Hudson's wrist issues?
True Blue LA: Hudson appeared to be healthy, but he did show signs of wear and tear as the season wore on. He hit just .253/.325/.385 from June 1 through the end of the season after the hot start (.332/.407/.469 in the first 2 months). He was banged up a bit in late August and early September, and his occasional days of rest after Belliard arrived seemed temporary at first. Personally, I was pissed when the Dodgers declined to offer him arbitration, just because I didn't think there was any chance of Hudson accepting and coming back to play for Torre, even if it would have meant a $8-10m payday or so.
FB: Is Hudson worth anything more than a 1-year deal?
True Blue LA: Given the market for 2B, I don't think it would be prudent to give Hudson a multi-year deal; maybe a one-year deal plus an option would work. I am a fan of Hudson; he is a non-stop talker and it's pretty funny to see up close. I went to spring training last year, and just standing by the practice field there was never a time when Hudson stopped chattering. He is definitely a player worth rooting for from a personality standpoint, and he's still quite a productive player.
-- Thanks, Eric.
• Summing up: Last season, Hudson, who turned 32 on December 12th, put up a .287 AVG with a .357 OBP and a .417 SLG, 35 doubles, 6 triples, 9 HR's and 62 RBI's in 149 games and 551 AB's. The 8-year MLB veteran, a 1997 43rd Round pick of the Toronto Blue Jays, signed with LA last year following a 3-year stint in Arizona in which he hit .294/.365/.448 with a combined 91 doubles, 21 triples, 33 HR's and 171 RBI's in 403 games. Bill James, according to Fangraphs.com, is predicting much the same for Hudson, a .280 AVG, .353 SLG, .409 SLG, 33 doubles, 4 triples, 10 HR's and 61 RBI's with 7 stolen bases. (ed. note - "Anderson Hernandez, Alberto Gonzalez and Ronnie Belliard, who played the bulk of the time at second, produced a combined .255 AVG with 32 doubles, 6 triples, 7 HR's, 78 RBI's and 8 stolen bases.")
0 recs | 68 comments
good work on the intel, Ed
Dave at District Sports Page - January 14, 2010
Thanks, sir.
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
Awwww,
Jorge Padilla / Padilla signs minor league deal with Toronto
RoscoeNats - January 14, 2010
Waiting for Mezza tears....
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
Foster's! It's Australian for tears...
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
As soon as I noticed that yesterday, I figured Mezza would be heart broken.
At least, Padilla gets a minor league deal with Toronto.
MissB - January 14, 2010
*sniff* a sad day for chief fans.
Padilla!
Mezza - January 14, 2010 via mobile
LOL
PhDBrian - January 14, 2010
really enlightening
I really wanted to know why Hudson lost his job. Seems like a case of overuse and bad communication. I would be find with him at the right price.
Danyon Rome - January 14, 2010 via mobile
I'm ok with Hudson....
I’d just prefer Desmond at short…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
O-Dog! O-Dog!
Clap, clap…clap, clap, clap!
Can you imagine how funny it would be to have Hudson and Morgan on the field or in the dugout? Potential for much hilarity and good nicknames all around.
MissB - January 14, 2010
hudson is the man!
you can bat him in the two hole where he would be deadly with morgan on the basepaths. much better option than relying on guzman to get someone over(or desmond). or bat him 7/8 and not worry about having the pitcher leading off an inning so much. and there is no mention of his defense, the trio of hernandez, gonzalez and belliard don’t come close to hudson in fielding the position. you’re going to want an older second baseman if desmond is starting SS, whether that’s this year or next. Playing guzman at second has disaster written all over it, by the way.
VA SLIM - January 14, 2010
Well according to fangraphs data
ODOG is not a good defensive 2B anymore. Here are his last 6 UZR/150 numbers 2004 16.1, (gold glove), 2005 9.1 (outstanding), 2006 -0.7 (roughly average), 2007 0.5 (roughly ave), 2008 -7.6 (Just Bad) , 2009 -3.7 (below average). Zero is the exact average any season.
Belliard was a better defensive 2B than Hudson was last year (UZR/150 = 6.6), as was anderson hernandez (-1.8 in 2009). Alex Gonzalez was the worst defensive 2B in baseball with 100 innings played.
Guzman was average to slightly below average at SS last season (-2.6 uzr/150). An average to slightly below defensive SS should play an above average defensive 2B. SStops tend to be better defenders on average than second basemen, but also weaker hitters. As a result, Guxmans glove would be likely very good, but his bad would be bad compared to the typical secondbasemen.
On the flipside, Odog is still a very solid hitter at second and would be an upgrade over what we put on the field last season for sure. But if Wins Above Replacement are anything close to accurate as a stat he would only add one win to the team (2.9 WAR) over playing Guzman at second. Not sure that is worth the money if our future (Desmond) sits.
PhDBrian - January 14, 2010
Nice, thanks Brian...
Only got as far as an offensive comparison before time ran out…Hudson was good enough to win the NL Gold Glove, which probably says more aboot the award and the competition at second than aboot O-Dog’s talent…
Good stuff, thanks.
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
reputation and offense matter alot to Gold glove voters
Most BBWAA members have not caught on to the new defensive stats such as UZR/150 ot total zone etc. So, if your a writer that remembers Odog’s past but does not see him play everyday your inclined to believe he still has it with the glove. Particularl;y if his fielding percentage is very good. But he hasn’t had that outstanding glove in a few years. On the other hand, most GMs seem to understand he is not as good as he once was or Odog would have commanded big money quickly this offseason. Nonetheless, his bat has significant value and overall he still a slightly above average to average 2B overall.
PhDBrian - January 14, 2010
are you sure?
According to Graphs.. Guz had 0.9 WAR last year.
martins - January 15, 2010
I know I skipped the Defensive stats...
Couldn’t think of a way to come with a combined measurement for the position….If only a big $ team was desperate enough for a SS to take Guz off the Nats’ hands…
And I’ve been a Guzman fan since his Twin days…just enough, time for kids…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
Nice work Mr.Ed !!!
What to gleen from this???? Yes, sign him but don’t give him more than one year with a option carrot dangling…umhh..I need lunch I’m hungry…
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
Look a bunny...
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
9 Million
Seems like a lot of money. I mean that kind of price means your probably one of the top 100 guys in the MLB in terms of $, at least from what I can find on-line. If thats the case then the question becomes, is Hudson one of MLBs top 100 baseball players?
Alex35332 - January 14, 2010
I think Hudson and his agent have to realize it's January Sale time.
I can’t see anyone giving him $9 million for a year. That kind of money is in his rear view mirror.
But it would be great if the Nats could get him for a decent price for a year with another year option.
MissB - January 14, 2010
No he is not. Top 250 probably.
PhDBrian - January 14, 2010
Which I will add is still a very good player. upper half to 1/3.
PhDBrian - January 14, 2010
Just not $9M a year good anymore...
Discount O-Dog is ok with me. He’s going to be on XM this afternoon, will take notes and report anything of significance…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
Yep that is my view
PhDBrian - January 14, 2010
The Kennedy rumors...
seem to me to be aimed at lower Hudson’s demands. Considering how tight-lipped the FO has been this offseason, you have to assume there is a reason to leak interest in a guy nobody seems to really want.
Maybe I’m crazy, but I think Desmond is on the opening day roster with or without a FA 2B coming on board. He’s better than the AG and maybe he beats out Guzman at SS. We’re gonna pay Guzzie whether he plays or not (even if we trade him, we’ll have to eat most of his salary) so I would hope that his contract would not dictate his playing time.
rfk428 - January 14, 2010
if Desmond isn't starting, he'll be back in Syracuse
the team sees him as a starter, so if he’s not starting here, he will be in Triple-A. the whole reason he wouldn’t be starting is if they feel he isn’t ready, and to do that, it’s back to the minors for more seasoning.
Dave at District Sports Page - January 14, 2010
Just let it play out in training camp....let the best man play SS/ 2B
that is…….IF Riggleman can let it happen and stop this obsessive commitment to HIS .364 veterans ……Didn’t want him…NEVER WILL……
The Mamba - January 14, 2010
Deadliest venom do Mambas spew...smack between the eyes of Riggles...
Riggles didn’t even have a chance before the Mamba struck. Bad mamba !!! Me, I wear long hard boots so Mambas teeth hurt when they crash into my fine corinthian leather, crack, oh poor little snake go boom and then I have a nice vermin rifle to finish off Mamba, bam bam go bye bye. Licensed in MD. VA. & DC of course.
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
No snakes were hurt in the re-enactment...just using the power for mind bullets of course..
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
"mind wizards" Berndaddy, "mind wizards"....
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
HA!
Dave at District Sports Page - January 14, 2010
Wow! Reading comprehension is a SKILL, Mr. Mamba
This is from Bill Ladson’s article dated 1/12/10 entitled: “Desmond Ready to Take Over at Shortstop” -
“Manager Jim Riggleman, on the other hand, is confident in Desmond. Riggleman loves Desmond’s energy on the field.
“I don’t know if Desmond will be the shortstop, but as I stand here right now, I would be happy with it, because I know what kind of effort I’m going to get,” Riggleman said last November. “I know the energy that he brings to the team. I know how athletic he is. I’m excited about Desmond’s future. He has a future somewhere. It might be this [coming] year.”
Does this sound his obsessive commitment to his veterans?
Just one question, guys, have you ever seen The Mamba and Bobby Valentine together at the same place at the same time? Just saying.
Princess Jazzy - January 14, 2010
hehehe
Mezza - January 14, 2010
Riggleman had the same SICK Obsession .......
when he made it clear during the September call up that he was Committed to the .3xx roster of keystones that had been there all season….. and that he would severely limit the playing time of the call ups………
That is WHY i didn’t want this .444 Retread……… What if he hands out starting positions to players from last years WORST team in baseball just because they were there …..rather than MAKE THEM ALL EARN IT on the Field…..
The Mamba - January 14, 2010
Mamba, this team, for the most part, is set
position-wise, anyway.
LF Hammer
CF T. Plush
RF Super Dukes
3B FOF
SS Desmond/Guz
2B Guz/Hudson
1B Dunn-key
C Pudge/Flores
OF Maxwell
OF Bernadina
UTL Wee Willie
INF Morse
C Nieves
don’t know where anyone is supposed to earn anything else. there really aren’t position players ready to challenge anyone, unless you can enlighten us all.
Dave at District Sports Page - January 14, 2010
I can't decide if they'll keep J-Max and Bernadina on the bench...
Seems like such a waste of talent…but I guess legit teams do have talent on the backburner…this could take some getting used to…first the ‘09 picks don’t debut in their draft year, now this…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
I definitely agree with you there...
The junk about respecting other teams by playing vets with no future in DC over kids who’d earned a call-up irked me…and then playing Desmond in the OF?
Sorry, I’ve made my peace with Mr. Riggles, and hope he does turn this ship around…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
this is about middle infield..and it REMAINS a current cluster****
and a MAJOR issue if it does not CYA the mediocre to average pitching staff with top notch defense…then i might have to resurrect the possibility of a 100 loss 3 peat…….that i have shelved for the time being……
The Mamba - January 14, 2010
it's real simple ...if Guzman
and his $8 mil salary is NOT the best SS…or best 2b in Florida…then his boney a** sits and he can be the highest paid PH in the NL for a year……. To start just him because of his salary..or because he is Riggleman’s buddy…**** that !!!!
Let’as get real…the reigning worse team in baseball is going no where this year…..so Desmond? Morse? are they ready …. don’t really know , but Guz is a dead man walking… and i’d always rather LOSE with almost ready kids…than LOSE with veterans that are DMW.
The Mamba - January 14, 2010
We're on the road to nowhere.....
Talking Heads +1 Booo Whoooo We’re losers. again and again and again and again -100
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
From Ladson's article dated 1/12/10
“When the name Ian Desmond comes up in a conversation, the feelings in the Nationals organization are mixed when it comes to his abilities on the field.
One front-office person believes Desmond needs a half season in the Minors before making another appearance at Nationals Park. His belief is that the 24-year-old needs to improve his defense at shortstop. Desmond has a reputation of making spectacular plays look easy, but has problems making the routine plays.
Desmond took exception to the scouting report.
“I feel totally comfortable at shortstop,” Desmond said via phone. "Go back to any Spring Training I’ve been in, I’ve always played good defense. I’ve been solid. I felt like I’ve played very well.
“I played very good when I went to the big leagues, I thought. When the routine ball came to me, I felt like I made the plays. I’ll be the first to admit, I’ll make errors on crazy plays that most people wouldn’t even try to make.”
Manager Jim Riggleman, on the other hand, is confident in Desmond. Riggleman loves Desmond’s energy on the field.
“I don’t know if Desmond will be the shortstop, but as I stand here right now, I would be happy with it, because I know what kind of effort I’m going to get,” Riggleman said last November. “I know the energy that he brings to the team. I know how athletic he is. I’m excited about Desmond’s future. He has a future somewhere. It might be this [coming] year.”
Desmond agrees with Riggleman, of course. In fact, Desmond went so far to say that he is ready to be Washington’s starting shortstop this coming season."
Doesn’t sound like it is Riggleman that has the problem with Desmond, Mr. Mamba. Time for you to find someone else to rag on.
Princess Jazzy - January 14, 2010
Don't engage the mamba...
that only provides fodder for his worn out ..and very tiresome…cannon.
Nothing that any of you can write will convince that he is wrong on anything.
He’s a negative know-it-all bent on trying to make us feel stupid, inferior and silly.
He forgets that when he points his finger at us, he has 3 fingers pointing back at him.
MissB - January 14, 2010
Dont feed the trolls! :)
Mezza - January 14, 2010
Oh crap! I've been feeding the trolls...I'll leave him alone..
and maybe he’ll leave us alone…
Berndaddy - January 14, 2010
That "one front office person" who doesn't think Desmond is ready seems to...
…have won the argument for now…it’s gotta be Rizzo right?
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
I guess so, Ed. I would think it is Rizzo.
It’s weird, you see Riggleman’s quote from Ladson’s article on 1/12 and then the stuff about Guzman and his agent from yesterday … you wonder whether Ladson is making the assumption that if the Nationals get someone to play second base (Odog or Kennedy- God, I hope not Kennedy) Guzman will play short.
I guess I have trouble understanding why teams always resort to play someone that has been ineffective just because they owe the guy $$ on a bad contract. Just because they can’t move Guzman doesn’t necessarily mean it requires you to impede Desmond’s progress. At the very least Guzman can be a very very expensive bench guy. I guess what I’m saying is, I would loathe to let a bad contract stop me from putting the best guy I can at a specific position.
If Desmond does well in ST they should definitely let him start the season with the big club.
Princess Jazzy - January 14, 2010
This i KNOW
When you are a Cynical realist like me….or a Koolade Drunk, Deluded and Blind Faith fan……there is only one bottom line…..
YOU BETTER BE RIGHT…or you’re a BUFFOON !!
So far with the last 2 DEADgnats seasons…and the last DEADskins season…..I WON and my pals in the other camp..got MASHED !!!!
- I wanted to give retread Riggleman the benefit of the doubt but his Sept call up policy put a bullseye on his back…….if Guzman is handed any starting job for the wrong reasons…add that to the list.
-Actually i have given Snyder the benefit of the doubt for finally hiring a GM/ legit Coach..and have for now….. called off the cynical dogs….
The Mamba - January 14, 2010
Is there a middle ground between:
“Cynical realist like me”….“or a Koolade Drunk, Deluded and Blind Faith…”
Cause saying the team is cheap and will never sign a player like Chapman because a big $ team will snatch him up wasn’t exactly what happened…so you weren’t really right, the Nationals went hard at him and came up short with a 5-year/$25M dollar offer…so is the there middle ground there? I thought they should sign him, hoped they would and was surprised how far they actually went in their attempt to do so…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010 via mobile
mmmm...sweeeet Koolade...
Mezza - January 14, 2010
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Berndaddy - January 15, 2010
Mamba, I'm no kool-aid drinker
and I am pretty cynical myself.
I just wanted to point out that Riggleman acknowledged that he likes Desmond, so your impressions about Guzman being Riggleman’s best buddy were based on older information and Riggleman’s feelings about the situation have changed somewhat.
I know you feel you’ve been burned by the team’s past performance, but I think it is reasonable to give Rizzo, Riggleman et. al a chance to either sink or swim for a full season before unleashing the dogs …
Princess Jazzy - January 14, 2010
Hudson not worth it.
Let him stand in the unemployment line and bring in Adam Kennedy if a 2B is needed.
Kory Casto signed a minors deal with the Detroit Tigers. He just never panned out in the Nats system. Being stuck behind Zimmerman didn’t help either.
Expos4 - January 14, 2010
Always like Casto, but he never did pan out...wonder what he's considered now...OF/3B/1B? Best of luck, Kory.
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010
like = liked, I'm very tired...
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010
I wonder how bad the farm system was...
that we thought Kory would be the next big thing. In hindsight – he didnt really look much other than a minor league player. But I think it was as much as wanting to believe he was the next Zimmerman. Larry Broadway you can add to that list. Brandon Watson maybe… etc etc.
Mezza - January 14, 2010
opinion on Kasto
it’s not his fault he won the organization’s minor league player of the year award. that’s more of a testament to the state of the system. guy never had a chance. DC fans are so desperate to get a winner, we’ll cling to any glimmer of hope, and the award hung unreasonable expectations on Kasto. he’s a good ball player and a great guy. good luck to him in Detroit, i hopes he makes their club as their UTL guy.
Dave at District Sports Page - January 15, 2010
+1 on the good luck message
I liked him too…it’s kinda sad when prospects u like dont make it…
Mezza - January 15, 2010
You're right, we want to believe.
At least I do. I’ve heard a lot of names like that stall out in the minors. For years I waited for Broadway to make the jump. Watson yes. With the Expos it was always Ryan McGuire, Andy Tracy he’s still around with the Phils) Trace Coquilette. Clint Everts was big news, and he couldn’t pass AA. Now he is in the Mets system. I like when the teams I cheer for have home grown talent that makes there way through the ranks and you can really cheer for them on the big team. Kind of like, they were developed within. The F.P. Santangelo’s of the world. Mike Lansing’s. Unfortunately both of them were named on the Mitchell Report. Someday.
Expos4 - January 14, 2010
It hurts remembering what it's like to be a farm system for all of the other teams in baseball...
Montreal groomed some real talent for the rest of the league…
Patrick Reddington - January 14, 2010
Everts hurts me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Major_League_Baseball_Draft
Im sure the old Expos would have liked to have that 1st round pick again…
Mezza - January 15, 2010
Good Call
We didn’t even take the right kid out of Cypress Falls High School that year. Scott Kazmir to the Mets.
Expos4 - January 15, 2010
Wow, that was a nice draft. Look how many MLB players are in it...DARN !
Berndaddy - January 15, 2010
Take ur pick...
even the fat Prince would have been fantastic. Swisher…. god… it’s just terrible
Mezza - January 15, 2010
The old Expos
Would love to have the Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Grady Sizemore for Bartolo Colon trade back.
Thanks Bud Selig.
Expos4 - January 15, 2010
I forgot Cliff Lee was in that trade too. I only remembered Lee Stevens (plus Phillips and Sizemore). Wow, that was a bad trade. If that didn’t happen and those guys still became as good for the Expos they probably wouldn’t have become the Nationals. What could have been?
Natastrophe - January 15, 2010
It does seem like too much money
but as guzman ages the only thing keeping him from not being a AAA player (his decent defense) will erode further… I mean, it really is incredible how he could be such a bad offensive player and stick around this long… it’s not as though he’s THAT good of a defender.
I mean… the guy’s career OPS+ is 80 for crying outloud… Ozzie Smith’s was 87… At this point i’d rather give anyone else a shot…. but 9 mil is too much for a league avg hitter.. I agree… take a shot with the kid.
martins - January 15, 2010
Guz has made it this long...
because, up until now, he’s been employed by people that had their judgment clouded by his decent batting average, and were still clinging to the idea that he once had speed. Rizzo knows better. Guz isn’t being replaced because of his defense (primarily), it’s because he can’t get on base.
one more season, and we’ll all be free.
Dave at District Sports Page - January 15, 2010
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